"a case of exploding mangoes" has been on my reading list for long. Would give it a read this weekend.
Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
31–40 of 56 posts
Re: Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
And knowing Pakistanis both are equally possible.
How are social stereotypes relevant to this? The same could be said for India, Germany, the US...?
I think OP is implying talking to natives familiar with the culture confirms that the situation is not incredible. It's got nothing to do with stereotypes.
Re: Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
#33You have to understand something about a subset of 'elite' Pakistanis. This subset cherishes creating controversies as it generates the most attention in Pakistan and puts them on global platform as 'expert' on Pakistan issues. Pakistanis are addicted to 'conspiracy' theories and he who can garner most attention in this circle will ultimately get most media limelight within Pakistan and hence most money. Pakistan is…
I think you're getting downvoted because you're not really linking the content of your comment to this submission. I assume you are referring to the author as the elite? It sounds like you are criticizing the piece (or him?), but I have no idea what that criticism is.
>These people's outlandish claims will go unchallenged and will be etched into global media's output.
Can you tell me which claim is outlandish in this story? The appeal for positive news? The killing of the journalist?
Getting to your comment:
>Pakistanis are addicted to 'conspiracy' theories and he who can garner most attention in this circle will ultimately get most media limelight within Pakistan and hence most money.
I'm not sure the conspiracy theories about the US and/or the Jews gets people much money. In my experience, those who most vociferously push them in Pakistan are usually those with the least money.
>Pakistan is a simpleton Country and Society in many respects and it is quiet easy to herd the masses and profit out of it.
They've had far too many people killed by mob violence. Someone I personally know was severely beaten by a mob on the basis of a rumor (thankfully not killed). Yes, if by profit you mean gain the upper hand in a personal vendetta by the one spreading the rumor, I can see your point.
Re: Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
#34> But many readers in Pakistan have come to me and asked how I uncovered it all. It’s almost frightening to think that people read a work of fiction full of fantastical happenings as a piece of history. A retired spy chief once cornered me at a party and said, “Son, you have written a brilliant book, but who were your sources?” This dynamic should be familiar to anyone who works at the art of telling stories. People…
> Once every three weeks or so, my father catches me up on the latest in the alt-right scroogery. There's always some grand reveal just over the horizon, and the time shifts from 'real soon now' to 'in a few years', to mine and draw out that human feeling of being in on the conspiracy as much as possible.
Is he a watcher, or a believer?
> On a lighter note, a friend and I often refer to the concept of the mondegreen, misheard lyrics or dialogue that winds up being more iconic than the original
"Excuse me while I kiss this guy" and "Rock the Catbox"
Re: Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
#35Blank page, and outline.com doesn't seem to like the site. Anyone have a tl;dr?
Pakistani novelist visits Bangladesh. Shortly after his return, he is subject to a visit and interrogation by Pakistani security services. They demand a detailed explanation of the plot, which he embellishes to make as patriotic as possible and hide the subplot about disappeared activists in Pakistan. He talks about his other, first novel: > My first novel, A Case of Exploding Mangoes, grew out of my frustrated attem…
>> A Case of Exploding Mangoes had to be printed in India; the publishers in Pakistan found it a bit over the top and disrespectful to the establishment. To the surprise of everyone, nothing bad happened to me when it came out: no lawsuits, no ban.
I'm reminded of Bill Gates' appearance in Pirates in Silicon Valley, which was generally not flattering, which he described as "reasonably accurate".
Re: Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
#36> But many readers in Pakistan have come to me and asked how I uncovered it all. It’s almost frightening to think that people read a work of fiction full of fantastical happenings as a piece of history. A retired spy chief once cornered me at a party and said, “Son, you have written a brilliant book, but who were your sources?” This dynamic should be familiar to anyone who works at the art of telling stories. People…
The other half is where the people in charge of intelligence get inspiration from novels :)
Re: Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
#37> "In a press conference last December, he issued a heartfelt plea: if journalists filed positive stories for just six months, [...] would become a great nation. Mostly, [...] journalists obliged." Hmm. The story of a novelist being detained by customs and subject to political interrogation to see if the novel is sufficiently patriotic is not unique to Pakistan, either. Even in countries which pride themselves on fre…
> Even in countries which pride themselves on free speech. Where else have you seen this?
yeah, kind of annoying to see this "everythings fucked" narrative as the top post, while it lacks any kind of evidence (even anecdotal would work)
Re: Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
#38> But many readers in Pakistan have come to me and asked how I uncovered it all. It’s almost frightening to think that people read a work of fiction full of fantastical happenings as a piece of history. A retired spy chief once cornered me at a party and said, “Son, you have written a brilliant book, but who were your sources?” This dynamic should be familiar to anyone who works at the art of telling stories. People…
> Once every three weeks or so, my father catches me up on the latest in the alt-right scroogery. There's always some grand reveal just over the horizon, and the time shifts from 'real soon now' to 'in a few years', to mine and draw out that human feeling of being in on the conspiracy as much as possible. Is he a watcher, or a believer? > On a lighter note, a friend and I often refer to the concept of the mondegreen,…
Believer. Initially it was pretty darn annoying and I had to tune out his constant pleas for me to take him seriously. One time I fought back by compared his new direction to finding religion, which he seemed to take favorably.
But eventually he settled down, somebody must be coaching these media outlets to encourage the conspiracy without fomenting revolution. Now he's in a comfortable routine, spouting nonsense to whoever will listen. He'll find ways to convert any topic we find ourselves on to an angle into the conspiracy web. I let him wander around the conspiracy space, trying to find an angle to get me interested in it, then I'll hit back with actual history as I read it. Since these discussions don't have the benefit of Google, we mostly talk around each other without getting into the meat of anything. Which is fine for my purposes.
I try to walk the fine line between humoring and encouraging him, balancing my need for real intellectual stimulation with accommodating his emotional ones.
Re: Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
#39The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed.
Re: Explaining a Novel to Pakistani Intelligence
#40One of the more interesting aspects of this article was that it touched on this concept I have of 'narrative density'. It's closely related to Brandolini's law, that the amount of energy it takes to create bullshit is an order of magnitude higher than the energy it takes to refute it.
A story takes more effort to explain than it does to simply read and experience it. The author's efforts to explain the story to the intelligence officials quickly turned into a re-narration of the story. At some point they weren't dealing with the original but rather a new story tailored to the need to give the intelligence officials something they could understand, because they certainly didn't have the training / education / smarts to connect the dots at the speed needed.
Any effort to explain a story that's not proper analysis invariably produces a new story. And to properly analyze a story you need a lot more in the way of training or prior experience than you do to just read or experience it.
The underlying mental model I'm using here is to see narrative as a kind of analytical tool in and of itself as a compressive technique for masses of information. The mind doesn't want to deal with complex things all at once. A story is a form of information that is uniquely capable of providing not just 'idea units', but also examples of that information being used, and also why anyone would care.