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Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

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Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#31

Post by jay_kyburz »

If you have some ticket system where programmers can just take work, your team is breaking the first rule of Agile.

    Individuals and interactions over processes and tools.
A ticket system is a process. Individuals and interactions come first. Programmers talking to one another and being happy is more important than your task database in agile.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#32

Post by externalreality »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #27
externalreality wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first problem with agile is that false dichotomy - "It's either agile or waterfall". Sorry but that dichotomy doesn't exist. Waterfall vs Agile is just a good-bad binary. Surely you want to iterate quickly and stay in constant contact with customers, if that is all agile is then I am all in. However, I can't subscribe to robbing developers of ownership of a domain. I would even do microservice arch if it meant di…

Nothing in the Agile Manifesto says anything about robbing developers of ownership of a domain. The first line of the manifesto is "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools", which suggested to me that individual work satisfaction is right there at the top. Whoever is running your team is doing it wrong.

I wouldn't hang on every word of the agile manifesto. For example you don't have to google too much before you find people having debates over unit testing vs acceptance testing in the name of being "Agile" not giving to much attention to the "over processes and tools" part of the manifesto.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#33

Post by TheChaplain »

I disagree. To me, Agile is a successful way to work, and I prefer it.

Completing a task is where I get my satisfaction, even if it is a part of a larger piece. Also when I see the client try out the new functionality and giving me feedback (positive or negative) on a completed task.

Another good point with agile is that I can pick any task I see fit and have the capabilities to complete. I'm not stuck with a certain part forever, that is awesome and I love it because I get to learn new things.

In your anecdote, it seems to me that the person complaining is not really interested in the agile concept and prefers to work the old-fashioned way. That is fine, but unless the workplace have projects that adhere to the waterfall-model that he could work on, maybe he's just in the wrong place?

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#34

Post by macando »

This just came out:

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https://basecamp.com/shapeup

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#35

Post by thecupisblue »

Agile, Waterfall, Shmagile Shmoterfall I say.

All these "practices" are just ideas like "hey work in small sprints and deliver on the go" that have been shaped into ideologies and standards we "all need to work within" by the law of averages. If you have a 100 average developers working for your average corp developing software, they need a structure - oh look, here's agile - let's pay money to people to teach us how to agile (??!? i'm still confused by this, like are people seriously that dumb?) then force the strict set of guidelines and rules onto everything because thinking outside of the box or working outside the guidelines confuses the averages and introduces chaos. Keeping team small, agile and keeping agile/waterfall/whatever-silver-bullet bureaucracy out of their way is the solution.

We are dropping the ball because we focus on using "standard processes" for the sake of using "standard processes". The stricter you need to implement the rules and guidelines, the larger the chance something smells in your companies culture.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#36

Post by PdV »

IMHO - agile seems to be easy to learn but hard to master. I think we have tons of advanced beginners engaged in a global cargo cult.

Its such wide-spread phenomenon, such that we have an "even more agile" dark manifesto, pointing out the pitfalls in which the agile has fallen (eg. processes & tools) - http://darkagilemanifesto.org/ ...and the golden http://programming-motherfucker.com/ that urges us to just cut out the cancer.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#37

Post by cassianoleal »

I have been working in some form of agile methodology or another for years and wouldn't have it any other way.

It sounds like you've been working: - with toxic people; or - in toxic organisations; or - in immature agile organisations

If your ways of working are taking away your job satisfaction, you definitely need to raise that up with the team you work in (like in a standup, retro or just during the day). If it doesn't get addressed because the team disagrees, you're in the wrong team. If it doesn't happen because management disagrees, you're in the wrong team.

When I say you're in the wrong team, I don't necessary mean you're wrong or the team is wrong - only that you two are not a good fit for each other.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#38

Post by jay_kyburz »

externalreality wrote: post #32
jay_kyburz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in the Agile Manifesto says anything about robbing developers of ownership of a domain. The first line of the manifesto is "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools", which suggested to me that individual work satisfaction is right there at the top. Whoever is running your team is doing it wrong.

I wouldn't hang on every word of the agile manifesto. For example you don't have to google too much before you find people having debates over unit testing vs acceptance testing in the name of being "Agile" not giving to much attention to the "over processes and tools" part of the manifesto.

If we are going to critique Agile I think we should first agree what Agile is. Agile is the manifesto, not what some random dudes on the internet say it is.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#39

Post by randompi »

ngngngng wrote: post #6

I will not work at Agile/Scrum shops for similar reasons. Although my primary reason is different. Estimations break the whole process. Most of engineering is discovery work and discovery work can't be estimated, leading devs to estimate 10 times what tasks actually take so that they don't get in trouble for not finishing tasks on time. I work for a smaller dev team currently and I take a project and finish it A to Z…

Yes, some how people think the more they estimate, the better they'll be at it. But most tasks are different and the experience isn't as simple as a copy paste from the previous.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#40

Post by UK-AL »

haydn3 wrote: post #23
HeyZuess wrote: post #21

> He was shocked when he saw that the task's card has been claimed by another. If this is project management, then where is the planning ? This really has nothing to do with Agile, it has to do with planning which is not absent from Agile. > "I am not getting the satisfaction of completing a thing when working like this." This is a people issue, it's very attitude based. Oh someone took my ticket, my work life is hor…

The fact people can take tickets and you have to fight and have an argument about it really shows that there's a discourse inevitable in systems like Agile. Who gets the 'tickets', why are 'tickets' always ruling people, when will 'tickets' be more like working for your own company? The fact is the tickets themselves are acting like a virtual currency of which only one person gets, exclusively. If more than one perso…

Fighting over a ticket isn't an agile issue. In fact this the opposite of agile.

The developer at standup/meeting/story kickoff should of explained the situation and asked to work on the ticket himself or pair on it. Problem solved.

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