31–40 of 78 posts
Is there any reason why applications cannot be written for the Librem 5 with Flutter? The Flutter framework compiles to ARM binary and the UI is rendered with Skia, a C++ UI layer. It's not like a bunch of widgets would need to be written and supported on Librem, just the Skia layer. What am I missing?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's Linux -- if it's missing something, I can just build it. And I don't have to write my code in something horrible like Java, or boot up an emulator to test things, or submit my code to an app store, or figure out how to root it so I can remove all the bundled spyware. If I write a command line utility, I don't need to have a separate codebase between my computer and my phone. It's what I have always wanted my sma…
Besides the hardware kill switches and replaceable battery, I think this experience is going to compare poorly to LineageOS, which has a lot of the same software freedom and privacy advantages with a much more refined and complete operating system. This phone is months from shipping and we haven’t even been shown multi touch have we? Is that even a feature being promised? Ultimately the difference between this and th…
Secondly, there are a lot of things that one can do in an ordinary desktop-Linux environment that are much more complicated in the Android world. On my old Nokia N900, I frequently wrote Python scripts that interacted with the system D-bus to automate things, and I did not have to install a big development environment or download someone else’s solution.
Registered just to post this. Love Purism, want it to succeed. But... IMHO, the effort is going to fail miserably, unless folks stop wasting time trying to build a phone UI, i.e. another attempt to build Android/iOS ecosystem. There were Sailfish, MER, Openmoko, and whatnot attempts to make a pure Linux-running cell phone. Just stop it. You will burn through your money doing half-baked UI, there will be no adoption,…
And seriously, basic functionality should be web-based? A phone should not be required to have an internet connection to do such things. While I am on a plane, or when I am traveling in a country but unable to buy a local SIM, then I should be able to expect that my phone’s non-communication-related apps will still work.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's Linux -- if it's missing something, I can just build it. And I don't have to write my code in something horrible like Java, or boot up an emulator to test things, or submit my code to an app store, or figure out how to root it so I can remove all the bundled spyware. If I write a command line utility, I don't need to have a separate codebase between my computer and my phone. It's what I have always wanted my sma…
Besides the hardware kill switches and replaceable battery, I think this experience is going to compare poorly to LineageOS, which has a lot of the same software freedom and privacy advantages with a much more refined and complete operating system. This phone is months from shipping and we haven’t even been shown multi touch have we? Is that even a feature being promised? Ultimately the difference between this and th…
I know I can theoretically compile my own ROM or something to customize the desktop environment, but... bleh. It's time-consuming for me to build things on Linux, but it is more time consuming for me to build things on Android. Android development is just a pain all around.
This on the other hand, isn't just a >$600 phone. It's a >$600 grimoire[0]. Expensive, and cumbersome, but nearly all magic is. There's an almost subconscious brand (for lack of a better word) that devices of this nature fit into. They're trading user-experience for dev-experience, which is not something LineageOS or Android is optimized for.
As to the rest of your criticism, all of your other points seem completely fair. I'm not sure what I would put the odds at of the device succeeding (note, succeeding means finding a stable niche, not beating any other device). And while I can forgive a lot of flaws in software, for the price they're asking the hardware/drivers need to work well.
I'm very much in the "wait and see" camp. But I do see a lot of potential.
I want to like Librem's smartphone, I really do. I like having control over my software, and I like being able to really understand how it works and tinker with it and stuff. But I have this sinking feeling that the Librem 5 is just vaporware, or worse, that it'll get released with a half baked UI and a barebones list of apps. On that latter one, I really don't see how they'll fix the problem. On the former, the thin…
A lot of Nokia N900 users were very happy with a “barebones list of apps” and the only reason that they had to eventually abandon that phone was because the closed hardware required a specific kernel version and certain other libraries could not be upgraded for interoperability and security’s sake. If the Librem offers a more upgradable device, then that is already enough for the hacker community. Most of my time is…
I also need to challenge you to look up a video of LineageOS and compare it to these videos. LineageOS would be like going forward 20 years into the future compared to this. This is a very rough tech demo at best, and this thing is supposed to ship this year.
LineageOS is giving you 95% of the privacy and freedom benefits while giving you a nearly infinitely better software library and UI along with it.
As a $100 tech toy phone I can see success but not $650. That’s iPhone money.
Is there any reason why applications cannot be written for the Librem 5 with Flutter? The Flutter framework compiles to ARM binary and the UI is rendered with Skia, a C++ UI layer. It's not like a bunch of widgets would need to be written and supported on Librem, just the Skia layer. What am I missing?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of Nokia N900 users were very happy with a “barebones list of apps” and the only reason that they had to eventually abandon that phone was because the closed hardware required a specific kernel version and certain other libraries could not be upgraded for interoperability and security’s sake. If the Librem offers a more upgradable device, then that is already enough for the hacker community. Most of my time is…
I totally understand that these phones are very much intended for highly tech literate people with specific priorities, but Librem will not see success selling a $650 phone that can essentially only barely use a texting app, a web browser that already exists, and stumble its way through Gnome like these videos are doing. I also need to challenge you to look up a video of LineageOS and compare it to these videos. Line…
> 95% of the privacy and freedom
This phone is for the people who want the other 5%. It's not trying to compete with the iPhone.
> stumble its way through Gnome like these videos are doing.
Odd. I didn't see that at all in those videos.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Besides the hardware kill switches and replaceable battery, I think this experience is going to compare poorly to LineageOS, which has a lot of the same software freedom and privacy advantages with a much more refined and complete operating system. This phone is months from shipping and we haven’t even been shown multi touch have we? Is that even a feature being promised? Ultimately the difference between this and th…
I use LineageOS right now. It's great, and I'm glad it exists, but it still requires me to write the majority of my apps in Java and to test them in an emulator, and it still requires me to use the Android OS for everything. I know I can theoretically compile my own ROM or something to customize the desktop environment, but... bleh. It's time-consuming for me to build things on Linux, but it is more time consuming fo…
I just don’t see that happening because I think the demos sort of show this for themselves. It may be fun to develop for but it doesn’t look enjoyable or practical to use. Wait and see we shall!
I want to like Librem's smartphone, I really do. I like having control over my software, and I like being able to really understand how it works and tinker with it and stuff. But I have this sinking feeling that the Librem 5 is just vaporware, or worse, that it'll get released with a half baked UI and a barebones list of apps. On that latter one, I really don't see how they'll fix the problem. On the former, the thin…
> On that latter one, I really don't see how they'll fix the problem. I don't understand what the problem is exactly. There already exist phones that have the latest apps. I don't think Librem is trying to be a market leader, just build a device that's more open, so to say. The demographic isn't Google or Apple users, it's those who wish more control. They're not going to fix the app gap problem because it's not a re…
As someone who preordered the Librem 5, I know I'm not going to get an operating system with the polish of iOS or Android. I'm willing to live with that; the phone is attractive for other reasons, both practical (easy to hack) and ideological (freedom!). Heck, even if the final product turns out so poorly that I end up never using it at all, I won't be too upset: even if my $600 didn't end up benefiting me personally, at least it went toward a serious attempt at achieving a worthy cause (an open phone).
Still, I would like to try actually using the phone as a daily driver, and for that to be viable, I'll need to be able to access the services I depend on. Luckily, I don't use that many services, and many of the ones I do use mostly have web versions; as much as I hate the experience of using webapps, I should be able to get by with them. But I can think of several that I'll have trouble accessing at all:
- 1Password
- iMessage (I guess I could try to set up the Matrix bridge.)
- Slack? Discord? (Both have desktop web versions, but not sure if they have usable mobile web versions. That said, I have bitlbee set up to connect to Discord already and I know there are bridges for Slack.)
I'm lucky that none of these seem to be hard blockers for me... but other people may not be so lucky.
And, well, if things work but are a poor experience, at some point I'll probably get fed up with it and switch back to my iPhone. Some people are more ideologically committed than I, but many are less. Though I'm not counting on it, I would love if Librem's OS gained momentum and became a sustainable ongoing project, rather than dying off as a prototype like so many prior attempts (webOS, Firefox OS, Ubuntu Touch, etc.). For that to happen, it will need users.
Registered just to post this. Love Purism, want it to succeed. But... IMHO, the effort is going to fail miserably, unless folks stop wasting time trying to build a phone UI, i.e. another attempt to build Android/iOS ecosystem. There were Sailfish, MER, Openmoko, and whatnot attempts to make a pure Linux-running cell phone. Just stop it. You will burn through your money doing half-baked UI, there will be no adoption,…
> another attempt to build Android/iOS ecosystem Do you understand what they are doing? They don't have to build the ecosystem, it already exists! > Purism just have shown that they wasted precious time on badly looking I think it looks good. > What a waste of time to re-write (or port) So you still have no idea what they are doing. Why are you taking the time to create new accounts and post long comments if you aren…
Now understand, thank you.
Before your kind explanation, I indeed did not fully grasp what Purism was doing. I was naively thinking they were doing a privacy-focused device that I could someday use everyday.
But instead they are doing a device that will run Linux and will occasionally make calls. I had one of those: Openmoko. Still have it in a drawer.
Without making a device that is actually useful, which will survive more than one iteration, those are futile attempts. Truth is: one small company will not be able to make a full well-integrated phone software in the time/money the company is allowed to burn. Unless they embrace "outsourcing" apps to existing ultra-portable (web) ecosystem, the attempt is doomed to fail.
Sadly, but if the course continues, I will make my prediction: Purism will successfully release Librem 5, there will be a half-baked UI (like MER/Openmoko/Sailfish/OE), half-baked bunch of native "Notepad" apps, no one will seriously use it, and it will be the last phone Purism will release.
Then, the circle of life: a new company will try the same.