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The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

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Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#31

Post by mirimir »

_ph_ wrote: post #18
mirimir wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You -- and lots of pesky Bitcoin speculators -- are missing the point. Bitcoin is currency. If it weren't for speculation, Bitcoin exchange rates with state-based currencies would be relatively stable. There's some deflation by design, but not enough to matter, unless you hoard. Exchange rate volatility is problematic. My solution is mainly to have more Bitcoin than I'd ever use, unless its value crashed. That works…

I think you misunderstood me. I am making the point that Bitcoin has basically no value. Its only value comes from the fact that currently enough people think it has a value. Like the million dollar homepage. Once the novelty has worn off, it could drop to 0 value.

I don't think that I did.

No currency "has value". For dollars, it's the US government.

Bitcoin has value for three main reasons: 1) it can be used to buy stuff online, and can be anonymized; 2) it's not controlled by governments; and 3) it's a popular speculative asset.

The first two aren't about novelty. Sure, if something else comes along that does those things better, people will shift. But none of the existing alternatives has managed that yet.

The third does have a huge novelty component. And personally, I wish that all the bloody speculators would just piss off. But whatever, I can live with them. And free money is cool too.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#33

Post by ignaloidas »

_ph_ wrote: post #26
ignaloidas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Federal Reserve hasn't been really backing the dollar. The gold is there, sure, but it isn't connected in any way with the value of dollar. The Federal Reserve surely doesn't have enough goods to back all of the dollars in circulation. The fact that US industry is trading by dollars doesn't change the matter. There are quite a few businesses that trade by bitcoin.

The dollar has not been backed by gold for a long time. It is backed by the Federal Reserve bank by the political power of the US and of course by the GDP of the US. Like with gold prices, there is quite some flexibility in the value of a currency, but that flexibility is contained in certain intervals because of the influence and the acting of the Federal Reserve bank. As long as the US doesn't default, the dollar h…

It is not backed. I cannot exchange dollars into political US power or GDP of US.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#34

Post by ignaloidas »

akuji1993 wrote: post #32

It tells me there are only 30.000 transactions? In the last block? Because that number seems very small compared to the hype that surrounds Bitcoin if that is "All Transactions of all time"

This doesn't represent Lightning network, which is used for smaller, quicker transactions later synced onto the main Bitcoin chain by transferring only the differences between the nodes to save on transaction fees.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#35

Post by _ph_ »

ignaloidas wrote: post #33
_ph_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dollar has not been backed by gold for a long time. It is backed by the Federal Reserve bank by the political power of the US and of course by the GDP of the US. Like with gold prices, there is quite some flexibility in the value of a currency, but that flexibility is contained in certain intervals because of the influence and the acting of the Federal Reserve bank. As long as the US doesn't default, the dollar h…

It is not backed. I cannot exchange dollars into political US power or GDP of US.

It is backed by the GDP as you can buy goods sold by US producers with dollars. Be it iPhones, beef, corn, cars, airplanes. And you would quickly notice the US power when you tried to print your own dollars for example.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#36

Post by Krenari »

_ph_ wrote: post #21
keymone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things do you seriously not see the circular nature of your argument? there is no "intrinsic value", there is only price at which a buyer meets a seller.

There are no infinite buyers and sellers. With intrinsic value I meant that there is something tangible you need or want. And the local supply of that thing. Which is determined by the effort of providing a thing. That is why beef in a farm town is cheaper than hundreds or thousands of miles away, as the whole chain of transportation and reselling adds cost.

I see that you have an issue with determination of value, because you are describing it on the way you value things only. After you solve problem with understanding that the value of everything is relative you give a chance to bitcoin too.

You are saying that there are no infinite buyers and sellers, you are right but there are no infinite bitcoins too.

You are taking an example of beef cause you thing it has intrinsic value but let me tell you that in some states in India if they find you eating beef, they will even punish you for that.

Everything's value is relative based on the usage, and usage creates demand.

As conclusion, if community of libertarian will grow, Bitcoin's value will rise because demand will rise, if not, it is likely to fail.

But nothing is black and white, people will take sides and we will always have haters and lovers. There will always be enough bitcoin to serve people they want to use and not enough for the value to become zero.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#37

Post by _ph_ »

uoylj wrote: post #27
_ph_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood me. I am making the point that Bitcoin has basically no value. Its only value comes from the fact that currently enough people think it has a value. Like the million dollar homepage. Once the novelty has worn off, it could drop to 0 value.

A secure global ledger does have value though. At least it does to lots of people.

Yes, Bitcoin seems to be popular in the trade of illegal goods and for paying ransomware. Doesn't exactly explain why most other people invest so much into Bitcoin. And the security is very dubious, considering the track record of Bitcoin exchanges.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#38

Post by navigatesol »

mirimir wrote: post #11
_ph_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

You -- and lots of pesky Bitcoin speculators -- are missing the point. Bitcoin is currency. If it weren't for speculation, Bitcoin exchange rates with state-based currencies would be relatively stable. There's some deflation by design, but not enough to matter, unless you hoard. Exchange rate volatility is problematic. My solution is mainly to have more Bitcoin than I'd ever use, unless its value crashed. That works…

>but not enough to matter, unless you hoard.

>My solution is mainly to have more Bitcoin than I'd ever use

In other words, you're hoarding.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#39

Post by navigatesol »

tobiaswk wrote: post #10
_ph_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most valuations make sense as they are tied to the intrinsic value of things. A potatoe will feed you for a while. The value can vary - a potatoe farmer won't be hungry, so the value is to learn a living, a hungry person will value a potatoe very high. The price at each step in the chain between the farmer and the hungry person is determined by a lot of factors - distance and the scarcity vs. need at each point. Same…

Couldn't the same be said about the US dollar? In fact there's no limit on that one. With the fractional reserve banking in place as todays standard the Federal Reserve just print more notes when needed to bail the banks. The whole system is based on trust. Trust does not scale well.

>With the fractional reserve banking in place as todays standard the Federal Reserve just print more notes when needed to bail the banks.

The Federal Reserve doens't simply print notes and drive them over to the banks. There's an asset exchange that takes place.

Re: The Bitcoin Blockchain Visualized in 3D

#40

Post by olalonde »

akuji1993 wrote: post #32

It tells me there are only 30.000 transactions? In the last block? Because that number seems very small compared to the hype that surrounds Bitcoin if that is "All Transactions of all time"

It's probably number of transactions in a single block (e.g. within ∼10 minutes). All transactions of all time is way larger.
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