Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies • Hacker News Board

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#31

Post by pbhjpbhj » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 10:10 AM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #24

StreamBright wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Izrael's startup ecosystem heavily relies on ex-military intelligence officers, they have an entire pipeline for hiring them into startups. https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2016/05/11/inside-...

Everyone in Israel has to do military service so you would be hard pushed to create a company selling pea shooters that did not have ex-military in it. As for 'military intelligence' that is a large part of what the military actually is, so you would expect them to graduate into tech roles rather than making pea shooters or anything else 'harmless'.

According to Wikipedia everyone in China has compulsory military service, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army

Makes the revelation that "some people working at Huawei have links to Chinese military" just so shocking. Trump's totally right we should all buy USA tech and not use Huawei for 5G. /s

When's the list for other countries being published?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#32

Post by qaq » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 10:14 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #25

mrtksn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we know that "former" is not just on paperwork? When I hear the arguments against China and their tech companies, I don't have a problem believing them, however I do not expect anything less from the USA. Remember Snowden? I'm simply assuming that Facebook, Google, Apple, Cisco or any other US tech company are tapped by the US 3 letter agencies. There were some reveleations on that(PRISMA) but it's probably ju…

I think the big difference is that US companies can meaningfully resist the US government if they choose to, and they often do. Chinese companies cannot.

"meaningfully resist" are there many examples of that? I remember Qwest CEO meaningfully resisting did not work out too well.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#33

Post by mrtksn » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 10:15 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #25

mrtksn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we know that "former" is not just on paperwork? When I hear the arguments against China and their tech companies, I don't have a problem believing them, however I do not expect anything less from the USA. Remember Snowden? I'm simply assuming that Facebook, Google, Apple, Cisco or any other US tech company are tapped by the US 3 letter agencies. There were some reveleations on that(PRISMA) but it's probably ju…

I think the big difference is that US companies can meaningfully resist the US government if they choose to, and they often do. Chinese companies cannot.

>US companies can meaningfully resist the US government

That doesn't seem to be the case but the narrative. There were enough leaks, document dumps, and whistleblower revelations to dismiss this narrative.

Sure, for the US having competition is a problem but sometimes the US citizen should zoom out on Maps and Google some labels they see. Literally, most of the people do not live in the USA and you can confirm that by Googling labels in the maps, things like "France", "Germany", "Turkey", "Azerbaican", "China", "Japan". You will notice that these are lands that are somewhat similar to the USA but are not the USA but using the stuff made or operated in the USA.

For people looking from that part of the world, the "Chinese are spying on us" panic is met with "Oh really, that's so bad. Poor thing" level of simphaty.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#34

Post by fit2rule » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 10:21 AM UTC

MiroF wrote: post #26

wild - this thread appears to be brigaded by pro CCP posters

I think a lot of people are just sick and tired of American hypocrisy. The country that gave us the oppressive 5-eyes regime has not in any way gained moral authority to declare other nations' intelligence agencies involvement in industry to be immoral, or a 'security risk'. Until the NSA is disbanded, there is no security on the Internet.

To explain the perspective and avoid the inevitable "you must be a shill for the CCP if you're so anti-America" accusations, I don't live in China, and choose not to, because I am very much against the actions of the CCP.

But I do live under the imperial shadow of America's decisions to usurp sovereignty and privacy around the world - I did not choose to be subject to this oppression.

I, like so many enlightened individuals who make up this community, am extremely opposed to America's usurpation of the technologies that held so much promise for peace. American hegemony over the tools of peace in order that it can maintain its power is one of the worst circumstances of the modern world.

I'd like to see ALL telecom companies swept clean of ALL repressive spooks who once served their nations intelligence agencies and can therefore never be trusted with the open communication lines of the world.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#35

Post by PakG1 » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 10:26 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #31

Theodores wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone in Israel has to do military service so you would be hard pushed to create a company selling pea shooters that did not have ex-military in it. As for 'military intelligence' that is a large part of what the military actually is, so you would expect them to graduate into tech roles rather than making pea shooters or anything else 'harmless'.

According to Wikipedia everyone in China has compulsory military service, too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army Makes the revelation that "some people working at Huawei have links to Chinese military" just so shocking. Trump's totally right we should all buy USA tech and not use Huawei for 5G. /s When's the list for other countries being published?

If you're going to write that, then also post https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_China because most Chinese people don't seem to serve in the military. It's not like South Korea where young men famously dread the time they have to go to the military.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#36

Post by mrtksn » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 10:27 AM UTC

throwaway8879 wrote: post #29

mrtksn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we know that "former" is not just on paperwork? When I hear the arguments against China and their tech companies, I don't have a problem believing them, however I do not expect anything less from the USA. Remember Snowden? I'm simply assuming that Facebook, Google, Apple, Cisco or any other US tech company are tapped by the US 3 letter agencies. There were some reveleations on that(PRISMA) but it's probably ju…

So what? Well, we get to choose which side we allow to spy on us. I mean, I suppose we could make an argument for all people being equal in all equal ways, but don't forget that the each state actor is driven by different sets of morality, politics and even philosophy, or perhaps lack of it. The only conclusion we can derive is that this whole surveillance/spying thing will never stop, everyone does it and will conti…

What if the "We" is 95% of the world that is not the USA?

It's cute that US citizens have some spying issues and some targeted election interference issues but the sympathy is very limited because in many parts of the world they were dealing with this since ever and the USA was the culprit.

I think we are approaching a time in history where we are going to actually choose if we are human resources that are to be spied on and controlled by the political class or are we individuals.

Choosing the government or agency you are being spied on is a false choice because it assumes that you made the choice to be a human resource and you are to be exploited but you can pick your masters by fighting against your master's competitors.

The moral argument is unconvincing given what's happening in the USA with all those immigrant camps and political agenda.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#37

Post by unicornfinder » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 10:37 AM UTC

PakG1 wrote: post #35

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia everyone in China has compulsory military service, too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army Makes the revelation that "some people working at Huawei have links to Chinese military" just so shocking. Trump's totally right we should all buy USA tech and not use Huawei for 5G. /s When's the list for other countries being published?

If you're going to write that, then also post https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_China because most Chinese people don't seem to serve in the military. It's not like South Korea where young men famously dread the time they have to go to the military.

Indeed. I was doing some research a while back on which countries do and don't have conscription and it's a surprisingly hard line to draw. A lot of countries have it in name, but don't in practice, and the line between having and not having conscription is surprisingly blurry.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#38

Post by throwaway8879 » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 10:50 AM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #36

throwaway8879 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? Well, we get to choose which side we allow to spy on us. I mean, I suppose we could make an argument for all people being equal in all equal ways, but don't forget that the each state actor is driven by different sets of morality, politics and even philosophy, or perhaps lack of it. The only conclusion we can derive is that this whole surveillance/spying thing will never stop, everyone does it and will conti…

What if the "We" is 95% of the world that is not the USA? It's cute that US citizens have some spying issues and some targeted election interference issues but the sympathy is very limited because in many parts of the world they were dealing with this since ever and the USA was the culprit. I think we are approaching a time in history where we are going to actually choose if we are human resources that are to be spie…

I'm from one of the poorest countries on the planet, which is neither politically aligned with the US nor the Chinese, because it isn't geopolitically important enough. Though to be entirely honest, it's aligned with whoever throws money at it. I'm wary of the economic moves the Chinese are making in my part of the world, because they come attached with fat strings, which most people are willing to ignore for said economic benefits.

Nations aren't single discrete entities, so everything from individuals to collectives of all sizes within a nation will want to align with the US or the Chinese, depending on money, politics, ideologies, etc. I personally would much rather have the NSA read my emails, not the Chinese. It may be an unfair choice, but it is a choice.

> I think we are approaching a time in history where we are going to actually choose if we are human resources that are to be spied on and controlled by the political class or are we individuals.

I don't think you are right about this bit. The oppressor/oppressed duality is never going away, because it isn't determined by some kind of social realisation that we could do better as a species. It is determined by our biology and our drive to acquire resources. That kind of change won't happen until our biology changes.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#39

Post by KeAShizuku » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 11:00 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #25

mrtksn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we know that "former" is not just on paperwork? When I hear the arguments against China and their tech companies, I don't have a problem believing them, however I do not expect anything less from the USA. Remember Snowden? I'm simply assuming that Facebook, Google, Apple, Cisco or any other US tech company are tapped by the US 3 letter agencies. There were some reveleations on that(PRISMA) but it's probably ju…

I think the big difference is that US companies can meaningfully resist the US government if they choose to, and they often do. Chinese companies cannot.

The difference is America good China bad.

And thats fine if you're a US citizen swallowing the propaganda. I don't think anti Chinese sentiment is going to make the world better. China exists and its not going to disappear.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#40

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 06, 2019, 11:01 AM UTC

qaq wrote: post #32

darawk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big difference is that US companies can meaningfully resist the US government if they choose to, and they often do. Chinese companies cannot.

"meaningfully resist" are there many examples of that? I remember Qwest CEO meaningfully resisting did not work out too well.

[deleted]