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Exploring alternative funding models for the web

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Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#31

Post by rolltiide »

rubbingalcohol wrote: post #23
rolltiide wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paid by the ISP which I already pay for

Why should Comcast pay for peoples' hentai blogs? Problems like creating an online tipping protocol could be addressed with work on new web standards, not private partnerships with for-profit companies spearheaded by a single browser developer. If something like this could work, it needs to be an open standard. I appreciate Mozilla's work on this important issue, but don't think they are even starting with the right…

> Why should Comcast pay for peoples' hentai blogs?

It wouldn't, and this whole subthread of tipping is way off from what this article and service provider is even on about. So since we aren't actually talking about micropayment tipping, lets continue:

Having the ISP handle both the subscription and payment would be reducing and bundling a pooled monthly subscription away from consumers.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#32

Post by lwb »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13
kdbg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, here's a thought, Mozilla should create a tip jar non-profit organization. Tipping would be something built into Firefox. If you tip someone, it's sent to the non-profit's bank, and connected to the url. Site owners could then register with the non-profit, in manner similar to Google Webmaster tools, that would let them access the tips they've received. This is kinda what the Basic Attention Token is in the Bra…

> This is kinda what the Basic Attention Token is in the Brave browser The difference is in OP’s proposal one gets money. Brave sends people its token things.

You can redeem them for like, 30 cents, so that's something

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/basic-attention-token/

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#33

Post by soheil »

I think what a lot of these models miss is the consent part of the system. In ads you don't give explicit consent to pay the publisher but they do get paid. I think that psychological element is both very obvious and almost always ignored with any new model. If we want to make a successful model we have to maybe borrow good ideas from models that are most successful today and lack of explicit consent is absolutely one of them. This reminds of the water my plant project where someone created a bot controlled by a subreddit to water a plant. Can we sort of allow access to a money account that we, the user, own but controlled by someone else? What would happen if any website publisher could withdraw from that account based on their judgement? There would need to be some obvious limits in place.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#34

Post by vimslayer »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #17
jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

What happens with the tips sent to a website that doesn't register with Mozilla? Maybe there should be a standard meta tag that websites can add to show they are looking for tips. And then they can even add a URL on the tag so they can use another provider if for some reason they don't want Mozilla to be the gatekeeper of their tip jar. But then again, they can just add the link in the website itself like they alread…

The thing definitely needs to be opt-in instead of opt-out. BAT just recently got some backlash when Tom Scott tweeted that (I'm paraphrasing) he doesn't really like how Brave is using his identity to collect money without his consent.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#35

Post by fwip »

jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

You're not the first person to think of this.

You may want to look at Gittip/Gratipay (no longer active) or Flattr (still going), and the experiences they had while developing their solutions.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#36

Post by 0815test »

TylerE wrote: post #15
99052882514569 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tips are cool, but a browser-based micro-payments setup will create a more consistent alternative revenue stream.

People have been beating the micro-payments horse since at least the late '90s. I don't get it, at all. No one likes turning every action into a financial decision. History has shown that buffet-style pricing (Netflix, Spotify, et al) is much more appetizing - because you only have to make the decision ONCE. There is no financial pain for consuming content.

> History has shown that buffet-style pricing (Netflix, Spotify, et al) is much more appetizing

For all we know, Netflix and Spotify might be special cases. Cable TV uses the same buffet-style pricing and plenty of people object to that, because it means funding content that they have zero interest in.

I'd say the better solution is crowdfunding a la Patreon/Kickstarter, combined with free-and-open content release as an incentive for users to pitch in. This model can be problematic for some forms of media where full costs are hard to assess, especially in advance (feature video), but it would work wonders for "plain" text and other low-commitment stuff.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#37

Post by fwip »

vimslayer wrote: post #30
TylerE wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been beating the micro-payments horse since at least the late '90s. I don't get it, at all. No one likes turning every action into a financial decision. History has shown that buffet-style pricing (Netflix, Spotify, et al) is much more appetizing - because you only have to make the decision ONCE. There is no financial pain for consuming content.

Sure, as long as the amount of those buffets stays within reasonable limits. If I stumble to a site from Google, there's no way I'm just going to register to their monthly subsciption plan, no matter how useful their content was. But if I was happy with the content, I could maybe make a one-time donation or payment. I'm afraid that embracing periodic "buffet-style" pricing also embraces big centralized platforms, lik…

Micro-payments in this context doesn't refer to voluntary tips, but rather to automatically billing you, say, 1 cent per article you read.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#38

Post by 0815test »

josteink wrote: post #9
jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

> services like Scroll, the site owner has to register with Scroll. Patreon requires the user register to send money to the site owner. And the site has to not challenge the current political climate, or (leftist) political activist will pressure payment providers like MasterCard and Visa into banning the site in question from receiving payment from downstream payment services[1]. > Mozilla should create a tip jar no…

This should not be downvoted. It's indeed beyond ridiculous that some sites, and even some individual content makers (such as the well known 'SexyCyborg'/'Machinery Enchantress'), are having trouble accepting funding online for what are unambiguously political reasons.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#39

Post by majewsky »

decasteve wrote: post #28
hiccuphippo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens with the tips sent to a website that doesn't register with Mozilla? Maybe there should be a standard meta tag that websites can add to show they are looking for tips. And then they can even add a URL on the tag so they can use another provider if for some reason they don't want Mozilla to be the gatekeeper of their tip jar. But then again, they can just add the link in the website itself like they alread…

Perhaps a DNS TXT record with the info.

A meta tag is better granularity because different pages on the same domain could be attributed to different authors.

Also, if we put bank account numbers in DNS (metaphorically speaking), we will we a lot more DNS spoofing attacks.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#40

Post by majewsky »

celticmusic wrote: post #22
jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

Are you me? About 2 years ago I was having a conversation with someone and this was roughly the idea I had. A wallet that users can fill up and apportion appropriately. So if someone really likes reddit, then they can automatically give say $5/month to reddit out of that wallet. And in exchange they get perks. And, as you said, if they come across a blog post they really like, they can also tip ad hoc. Patreon for th…

You're describing Flattr.
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