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Ive’s Legacy, the Post-Ive Apple

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Re: Ive’s Legacy, the Post-Ive Apple

#31
post #23

I hope Apple goes back to Frog Design, I think those designs had much more character. Also, if you make a design slimmer and slimmer, you're bound to end up with something flat and uninteresting. I also don't like the sharpness of the aluminum at the edges. The plastic designs were much more friendly, imho.

> you're bound to end up with something flat and uninteresting That's the ideal: a computer that gets out of the way. They've been wanting that since long before Steve died, too. Hence the iPad, literally just a screen. Or last year's iPad Pro, where they took the bezel away and there's even less screen, same for the MacBooks. The iMac must be the poster child: literally just a screen. The less device you see, and th…

> That's the ideal: a computer that gets out of the way. They've been wanting that since long before Steve died, too.

Yeah, but what's Ive's role here? Isn't the miniaturization more due to electrical engineering efforts (placement/routing/PCB design), than to visual design efforts (making it look thinner than it actually is)?

> But plastic also chips and breaks.

Yes, and I think it gives a device more identity and character :)

> The plastic also didn't vent the computers' heat very well.

True! But Apple is known for their obsession of "form over function", so this is a curious aspect that goes against their principle.

> the edges shouldn't come into it anyway

Yes, that's a good point. But you can't always prevent that e.g. when traveling, or lying down, which is what laptops are made for.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my view because I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I liked Apple in the days of the Apple ][, but I absolutely despise their walled garden, and their assimilation of the supply chain. Design is absolutely secondary to all that.

Re: Ive’s Legacy, the Post-Ive Apple

#32
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also really loved the skeuomorphic design that came with my iPhone 4s. Buttons looked like buttons, leather and denim accents made the phone feel like a luxury device even though it was just digital fabrication. Even the notes application looked like a sketch pad with a special “handwriting” font. I was sad when it went but now I’m in full nostalgia mode. I wonder why they decided to kill it. There must have been a…

> I wonder why they decided to kill it. There must have been a good reason. Because it is tacky and it didn't age well I'd say the initial use of it was maybe in discoverability, but I suppose when smartphones became more popular that lost its main function. I think it gets distracting sometimes and it is needlessly design heavy (think how much images you need to do that).

My parents still handle easier the UI where they see the "buttons" for the navigation. They are just confused when some of the text is clickable and some is not.

For those who don't know them, the "buttons" like "Cancel" "Next" here:

https://www.dummies.com/wp-content/uploads/293595.image1.jpg

Young users don't have such problems, but original iOS was easy to use for the older generations too. Steve Jobs cared about the easy discoverability. That is something that started as early as with Apple Lisa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-atKrg0T4 also recently on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20247545

It was a big step back for my parents when iOS removed the buttons present in the older design and replaced them with the plain text.

Re: Ive’s Legacy, the Post-Ive Apple

#33
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. “My model for business is The Beatles. They were four guys who kept each other kind of negative tendencies in check. They balanced each other and the total was greater than the sum of the parts. That's how I see business: great things in business are never done by one person, they're done by a team of people.”

The Beatles exploded into rancour, hate, and bitterness, so they're maybe not the ideal role model. Bands are hard. People in bands are passionate, often drunk and/or on drugs, almost guaranteed to be egotistical, and fiercely competitive - not at all team players by default, more like literal 10X music rock stars. (It doesn't help if they are.) There's almost never a supervising manager to keep it all together. (Pro…

Genuine bands are hard. So are genuine partnerships in every field, including founding companies.

Top-down, command-and-control organizations that churn out product are different. Not all achieve the same success, but nearly every industry has figured out how to industrialize “creativity.”

In music, pop has had industrialization for sixty to seventy years. Instead of The Beatles, think of all the “bands” that were actually vocalists fronting for The Wrecking Crew or The Funk Brothers.

Think of producers and arrangers like Quincy Jones or Trevor Horn or Prince. They produced many acts, including their own, but they were essentially scaling themselves.

Bands of equals are hard. But industrializing music is an understood business.

Re: Ive’s Legacy, the Post-Ive Apple

#34
post #9
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm ready for a post-Apple world. Fine attention to detail in the user experience of their products, but at the expense of a pernicious ecosystem that traps you in and works with nothing else. It feels weird to say it, but I much more prefer Microsoft and their recent culture change. They're putting xbox gamepass on non-Microsoft devices, their own PC games on Steam, open sourcing their software, building world class…

Apple has their own walled garden ecosystem because they can afford to. It really isn't much different from Microsoft in the 90s and early 00s, when they were at the peak of their market lock-in with Windows. Then the rest of the world changed, and it took them a really long time to adapt. Since they've been forced to open up their software and their ecosystem, the consumer has benefited immensely. Had everyone still…

Microsoft always wanted 3rd party apps on windows and never really tried to monopolize distribution or creation. They wanted the platform to be valuable to customers.

Re: Ive’s Legacy, the Post-Ive Apple

#35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder why they decided to kill it. There must have been a good reason. Because it is tacky and it didn't age well I'd say the initial use of it was maybe in discoverability, but I suppose when smartphones became more popular that lost its main function. I think it gets distracting sometimes and it is needlessly design heavy (think how much images you need to do that).

My parents still handle easier the UI where they see the "buttons" for the navigation. They are just confused when some of the text is clickable and some is not. For those who don't know them, the "buttons" like "Cancel" "Next" here: https://www.dummies.com/wp-content/uploads/293595.image1.jpg Young users don't have such problems, but original iOS was easy to use for the older generations too. Steve Jobs cared about…

I'm not sure how that looks like in a modern iOS version

I'd say this is a good example of (light) skeumorphism (which is mostly good and non-intrusive), I was mostly talking about stuff like the notes app https://www.dummies.com/consumer-electronics/tablets/ipad/ho...

Re: Ive’s Legacy, the Post-Ive Apple

#37
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents still handle easier the UI where they see the "buttons" for the navigation. They are just confused when some of the text is clickable and some is not. For those who don't know them, the "buttons" like "Cancel" "Next" here: https://www.dummies.com/wp-content/uploads/293595.image1.jpg Young users don't have such problems, but original iOS was easy to use for the older generations too. Steve Jobs cared about…

I'm not sure how that looks like in a modern iOS version I'd say this is a good example of (light) skeumorphism (which is mostly good and non-intrusive), I was mostly talking about stuff like the notes app https://www.dummies.com/consumer-electronics/tablets/ipad/ho...

> I'm not sure how that looks like in a modern iOS version

https://www.authsmtp.com/images/setup/iOS11-smtp-server-setu...

They never know that they are supposed to click on these to proceed. With the button look it was obvious to them.

Re: Ive’s Legacy, the Post-Ive Apple

#40

The best Ive's product is the Magic Mouse... How could you put the charging port UNDER the mouse?

Because they didn't want you to plug in the lightning cable and just use it as a wired mouse ... because that defeats the purpose of it.

I mean, I plug mine in once in a blue moon ... and always when I leave the office for the night ... and it's fully charged for many weeks thereafter.

You might have more of a point if the battery only lasted a few hours ...

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