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Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

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Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#31

Post by raxxorrax »

s0l1dsnak3123 wrote: post #23

This is non-news. Someone who shouldn't be in charge of enforcing CoC comes into contact with someone who has the good fortune of possessing common sense. Its important to try to be as inclusive is possible - the community engagement person is wrong, but ultimately with their heart in the right place. Its also important to use your brain, read the room, and if something makes someone uncomfortable, let their voice be…

Haven't seen that much constructive examples of applied CoCs to be honest. But I agree, non-news.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#32

Post by yankeehue »

Here's one of my opinions: Everything anyone ever says is their own opinion based on their own experiences.

Here's another: We'd all be better off if we held the opinion above, and remembered it when assessing what people say. We'd be able to interpret statements like "Contributing to OSS is awesome!" as "In my own experience, contributing to OSS has been awesome", where such an interpretation doesn't erase or override one's own opinions and experiences. Not saying this is easy to do, just that it is beneficial.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#33

Post by pbhjpbhj »

detaro wrote: post #30
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #28

I don't understand how "tech involvement is harder for URM" as URM appears to mean "unaccompanied refugee minors"?? Can someone shed light on that?

URM = "Under-represented minority"

Cool, thanks.

I don't work in programming but know quite a few people through their contributions to OSS/software, but many of them I don't even know what sex they are, nevermind what characteristics they hold that are minority in their locality??

It seems really unlikely that any personal characteristic beyond your programming ability (and not even that necessarily, UX/support/bug reporting/etc.) could inhibit you from contributing to OSS?

I mean so people look at pull requests and say "does this smell like curry to you?".

Is it a genuine issue?

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#34

Post by detaro »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #33
detaro wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

URM = "Under-represented minority"

Cool, thanks. I don't work in programming but know quite a few people through their contributions to OSS/software, but many of them I don't even know what sex they are, nevermind what characteristics they hold that are minority in their locality?? It seems really unlikely that any personal characteristic beyond your programming ability (and not even that necessarily, UX/support/bug reporting/etc.) could inhibit you f…

Yes, it happens quite a bit, at least if people dare to use their actual identities for their contributions instead of hiding behind something neutral.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#35

Post by criddell »

binarymax wrote: post #8
criddell wrote: post #6

I don't understand what the problem was with her advice. Was it because she didn't start with "in my opinion" or some other qualifier?

There isn't any problem with her advice. There is a problem with the hosts. The suggestion that encouraging contributions to OSS might expose someone to being harmed in some way is absurd. You may as well say nobody should go to the grocery store - there might be a racist hiding in the frozen food section!

I'd like to understand this better.

Is the microaggression the implicit assumption that you should be able to handle the potentially negative people you encounter in the OSS community?

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#36

Post by 0815test »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #33
detaro wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

URM = "Under-represented minority"

Cool, thanks. I don't work in programming but know quite a few people through their contributions to OSS/software, but many of them I don't even know what sex they are, nevermind what characteristics they hold that are minority in their locality?? It seems really unlikely that any personal characteristic beyond your programming ability (and not even that necessarily, UX/support/bug reporting/etc.) could inhibit you f…

This whole movement for having CoC in open source projects came about as a side-effect of the use of CoC for physical conferences, meetups, workshops etc. etc.; stuff where "is X being unprofessional to the point of outright aggressing on others, or making them feel unsafe to be here" can be critically important, and even the level of "diversity" at an event can be easily assessed and alter perceptions of 'belonging', ease-of-cooperation and the like in rather clear ways. The people involved simply thought of CoC as "good", and just weren't thinking about "hey, does this stuff really apply to computer-mediated collaboration? Is this even relevant?" It simply wasn't on their radar.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#37

Post by detaro »

0815test wrote: post #36
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, thanks. I don't work in programming but know quite a few people through their contributions to OSS/software, but many of them I don't even know what sex they are, nevermind what characteristics they hold that are minority in their locality?? It seems really unlikely that any personal characteristic beyond your programming ability (and not even that necessarily, UX/support/bug reporting/etc.) could inhibit you f…

This whole movement for having CoC in open source projects came about as a side-effect of the use of CoC for physical conferences, meetups, workshops etc. etc.; stuff where "is X being unprofessional to the point of outright aggressing on others, or making them feel unsafe to be here" can be critically important, and even the level of "diversity" at an event can be easily assessed and alter perceptions of 'belonging'…

I don't think it's that simple. Sure, some things might not translate to digital communication, but many do.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#38

Post by pbhjpbhj »

detaro wrote: post #34
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, thanks. I don't work in programming but know quite a few people through their contributions to OSS/software, but many of them I don't even know what sex they are, nevermind what characteristics they hold that are minority in their locality?? It seems really unlikely that any personal characteristic beyond your programming ability (and not even that necessarily, UX/support/bug reporting/etc.) could inhibit you f…

Yes, it happens quite a bit, at least if people dare to use their actual identities for their contributions instead of hiding behind something neutral.

It seems so antithetical to the concept of contributing to OSS, any insights in to the people who are being prejudiced about people's code contributions?

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#39

Post by owenversteeg »

detaro wrote: post #34
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, thanks. I don't work in programming but know quite a few people through their contributions to OSS/software, but many of them I don't even know what sex they are, nevermind what characteristics they hold that are minority in their locality?? It seems really unlikely that any personal characteristic beyond your programming ability (and not even that necessarily, UX/support/bug reporting/etc.) could inhibit you f…

Yes, it happens quite a bit, at least if people dare to use their actual identities for their contributions instead of hiding behind something neutral.

I agree that people should be able to use their actual identities and receive the same treatment, but it's worth noting that in the programming world most people create accounts that either simply don't show their identities or obscure them. That does seem to be changing rapidly, though, and I wonder why.

I mean, right now in this very thread the 3 commenters are "0815test", "detaro" and "pbhjpbhj". For most people I've worked with on OSS, I couldn't tell any personal details if I tried.

(I do think this varies by community: in the Javascript world I usually see Github profiles with real names, a photo, location, and a bio... for C, you'll see mostly default photos, non-identifying usernames and no-nonsense bios)

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#40

Post by DanBC »

sjcoles wrote: post #26
DanBC wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty hard to explain. Some meet-ups and projects had a problem with people being fucking arseholes. They developed "codes of conduct" to help them deal with those harassing abusive people. This woman gave a talk to this meeting. She described her experience of working in open source. She was careful to say it worked for her but might not for other people; she was careful to say that it was anecdotal. Someone a…

So we're supposed to simply know what other people's past, present, and future experiences may or will be? Wouldn't using indicators like class, race, and gender to make these assumptions be a micro-aggression in and of itself? E: To be clear I am honestly curious. This whole argument gets into a circular reasoning of "oh you should just know you silly cis het male, if I have to tell you it won't make a difference/de…

> we're supposed to simply know what other people's past,

Can you tell me how I can reword "be mindful of" to avoid the implication that you need to know anything at all about other people? Because that's not what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say was "being aware of micro-aggressions is a small part of not being a complete cunt".

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