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Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

medicalxpress.com

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Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#31

Post by strainer »

fabian2k wrote: post #29
strainer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What particular anti-aging effects do you regard? Are not improvements in mitochondrial health practical indicators of anti-aging as improvements in skin elasticity or bone strength?

They didn't actually measure mitochondrial health, they measured acylcarnitine levels. Those levels indicate that certain metabolic pathways happening in the mitochondria are working better. This is still very far from any practical effect on the whole organism. Biomarkers can also be misleading, you're not measuring the actual process you're interested in directly, you're measuring a particular aspect that you think…

Is the article wrong in stating "UA stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis". Did the measurements of acylcarnitine levels not actually show this? Have any other substances been found to affect acylcarnitine levels or stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis ?

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#32

Post by strainer »

gpm wrote: post #20
gpm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite possibly pomegranate... It's unclear how much it has though.

From the Wikipedia link someone else posted it looks like 100g of pomegranate is approximately 250mg, so 200g pomegranates a day to get to the point where they saw any (non clinical still) effects.

Your statement reads as though the research tested lower doses and 500mg was the lowest which "saw any effects". Is this accurate?

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#33

Post by gbrown »

strainer wrote: post #31
fabian2k wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't actually measure mitochondrial health, they measured acylcarnitine levels. Those levels indicate that certain metabolic pathways happening in the mitochondria are working better. This is still very far from any practical effect on the whole organism. Biomarkers can also be misleading, you're not measuring the actual process you're interested in directly, you're measuring a particular aspect that you think…

Is the article wrong in stating "UA stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis". Did the measurements of acylcarnitine levels not actually show this? Have any other substances been found to affect acylcarnitine levels or stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis ?

That's orthogonal to the point you're responding to - the point is that while this is a promising avenue for research, it does not provide evidence of a meaningful effect on the actual outcome of interest: aging/longevity.

The point of a biomarker is that we think/hope/hypothesize that we can use it as a surrogate for the thing we're actually interested in, so that we have something measurable on shorter timescales. Unfortunately, this assumption is often incorrect, and we won't actually know for years.

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#34

Post by strainer »

DSingularity wrote: post #25
ConcernedCoder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...or we could just start eating Pomegranates?

The article states that Urolithin-A is not produced by everybody. That acid in these fruits needs to be converted to UA in our gut. So no, it’s not always as simple as eating these fruits.

However at the same time, the gut is so confoundingly complicated that substances in concentrated tablet form are often less readily absorbed than less concentrated amounts occurring in food.

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#35

Post by fasteo »

Just finished reading the paper, particularly interested in the mitochondrial biogenesis part. They make several comparisons with exercise adaptations, and the authors conclude:

>>> The present study reveals that UA induces a molecular signature response, in both the plasma and skeletal muscle of humans, resembling that observed as a consequence of a regular exercise regimen.

The also selected sedentary people only (from their participant inclusion criteria). Note that this is somehow normal: I have been rejected twice in 2 clinical trials for mitochondrial myopathy because I was too fit.

>> body mass index 18-32 kg/m2 and demonstrated sedentary behavior

All the authors declare a conflict of interest with Amazentis. Nestlé just signed a partnership agreement with them [1] to help them develop the product.

I guess they are actively seeking the exercise in a pill product. If they make it, it would be one of the biggest blockbusters in the history of medicine.

[1] http://pdf.amazentis.com/pdf/Nestl%C3%A9_Health_Science_&_Am...

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#36

Post by strainer »

gbrown wrote: post #33
strainer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the article wrong in stating "UA stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis". Did the measurements of acylcarnitine levels not actually show this? Have any other substances been found to affect acylcarnitine levels or stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis ?

That's orthogonal to the point you're responding to - the point is that while this is a promising avenue for research, it does not provide evidence of a meaningful effect on the actual outcome of interest: aging/longevity. The point of a biomarker is that we think/hope/hypothesize that we can use it as a surrogate for the thing we're actually interested in, so that we have something measurable on shorter timescales.…

I'm questioning the idea that this particular biomarker - doesn't actually mark what the report claims it marks (mitochondrial bio-genesis).

How do we often test for diabetes.. cancers.. many many clinical conditions? Biomarkers. So they are not practically unreliable in general.

What do you know about the particular biomarker employed in the study to say that it is unreliable ?

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#38

Post by gbrown »

strainer wrote: post #36
gbrown wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's orthogonal to the point you're responding to - the point is that while this is a promising avenue for research, it does not provide evidence of a meaningful effect on the actual outcome of interest: aging/longevity. The point of a biomarker is that we think/hope/hypothesize that we can use it as a surrogate for the thing we're actually interested in, so that we have something measurable on shorter timescales.…

I'm questioning the idea that this particular biomarker - doesn't actually mark what the report claims it marks (mitochondrial bio-genesis). How do we often test for diabetes.. cancers.. many many clinical conditions? Biomarkers . So they are not practically unreliable in general. What do you know about the particular biomarker employed in the study to say that it is unreliable ?

1. Each biomarker has to be validated independently. 2. There's a huge difference between something used for testing, and something used for intervention. Grey hair is a pretty OK test for aging, but clearly dying it isn't going to arrest the aging process.

Long term degenerative conditions are some of the most difficult problems for such validation, due to time, cost, and the complexity of risk in real populations.

I don't know anything about how well the current study actually links to mitochondrial biogenesis, but I know that we don't have satisfactory interventional biomarkers for a process as complex as aging. By all means continue researching this, but I think it's eminently sensible to be skeptical at this point.

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#39

Post by egypturnash »

ConcernedCoder wrote: post #8
arkades wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phase 1 study. Years from market.

...or we could just start eating Pomegranates?

First we should see if this study was funded by that one giant pomegranate farm in California.

If Wikipedia is correct, we should start eating yellow raspberries instead; they offer about seven times as much of the compound this study is investigating the effects of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urolithin_A#Dietary_sources

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#40

Post by [deleted] »

egypturnash wrote: post #39
ConcernedCoder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...or we could just start eating Pomegranates?

First we should see if this study was funded by that one giant pomegranate farm in California. If Wikipedia is correct, we should start eating yellow raspberries instead; they offer about seven times as much of the compound this study is investigating the effects of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urolithin_A#Dietary_sources

[deleted]
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