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Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

economist.com

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Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#31

Post by sdinsn »

zmmmmm wrote: post #10
savant_penguin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about risking bringing down a plane with 200+ people inside

It's hyperbole to suggest that risk exists when the protestors are telling everyone the exact date, time and location they will fly the drones. If the airport still chooses to fly airplanes during that time and people still choose to get on them, then I think you can't say the risk was introduced by the protestors. Which is not to say I agree or disagree with the protestors, but please don't dilute the meaning of ter…

Your logic makes no sense. We told Japan that we would drop a nuke on them. Does that mean it was all Japan's fault, and America created no risk?

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#32

Post by closetohome »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #12

>"Protesters plan a return to the airport—and there is very little the authorities can do" This line is curious. When was the first one? I mean there was the shenanigans where nobody was sure if there was even a drone, but there was in that case, as far as I am aware, no evidence for any activism beyond people saying that it might be activists. I am dubious about this reporting. If someone can show me something from…

I liked the part about how they never actually found a drone at Gatwick, but "experts" (?) say there "probably" was one.

I'm curious what they're basing that on, and who's considered an expert on phantom drones (as opposed to Phantom drones).

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#33

Post by frereubu »

gok wrote: post #26
frereubu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would likely lead to a much more serious criminal charge because it's more closely related to terrorism. People who are arrested for making jokes about having a bomb in their suitcase when going through customs at an airport find out very quickly how seriously those kinds of things are taken, particularly in a country with a relatively recent history of terrorist bombings and a high state of alert for terrorist…

So they're just taking advantage of the current legal loophole that bombs and drones are treated differently, despite the fact that they can be similarly dangerous to airplanes?

You're being obtuse. The aim of a bomb is to destroy lives and property. The aim of this protest is to stop planes flying, and to do so by flagging what they're going to do weeks in advance. Just the fact that they're talking about a mass of drones might be enough to close Heathrow for the day. The fuss about the recent drone-that-wasn't shows that you may not even need to fly them for this to have an effect, and if they do they're going to be damn well sure that they're nowhere near flight paths.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#34

Post by dvtrn »

gok wrote: post #24
teachrdan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're not terrorists. Terrorists use violence (and credible threats of violence) against civilians to achieve political ends. Instead, the activists here are disrupting air traffic using nonviolent means.

They are most certainly terrorists. How is "I'm going to blow up an airplane unless you don't fly it" different from "I'm going to fly a robot into an airplane, potentially causing loss of life unless you don't fly it"? How about "I'm going to aim blinding lasers at pilot flying a plane unless you don't fly the plane?"

So you’re trying to make a point by positing the most extreme scenarios of what these people could do instead of what they’ve clearly stated they will do-anticipated actions that don’t come close to being the same thing as bombing airplanes or destroying physical infrastructure?

Perhaps I missed reading statements where these people said they would fly an unmanned drone into a plane

I feel like there should be a term for this tactic of debate...

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#35

Post by gok »

detaro wrote: post #29
gok wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are most certainly terrorists. How is "I'm going to blow up an airplane unless you don't fly it" different from "I'm going to fly a robot into an airplane, potentially causing loss of life unless you don't fly it"? How about "I'm going to aim blinding lasers at pilot flying a plane unless you don't fly the plane?"

Except they are not threatening to fly a drone into a plane.

So if LHR decides to let airplanes fly anyway, they'll stop flying the drones?

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#36

Post by dTal »

farisjarrah wrote: post #11
perfunctory wrote: post #3

Off topic. I am getting a cognitive dissonance from the statements like "The airport is part of our national infrastructure...". Heathrow is owned by Heathrow Airport Holdings, private company.

You aren't wrong to be getting that cognitive dissonance. The more you think about it the worse it gets. The British Government spends loads of money on security and maintenance on the airport as well. If you talk about American Airports it gets even weirder. We have like private security companies that work with the TSA and Airports. So we have the public funding a private airport, which is a part of the national in…

Privatize the profits, subsidize the liabilities.

Standard playbook.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#37

Post by sofaofthedamned »

perfunctory wrote: post #3

Off topic. I am getting a cognitive dissonance from the statements like "The airport is part of our national infrastructure...". Heathrow is owned by Heathrow Airport Holdings, private company.

Eh? Lots of things are part of the national infrastructure - the power grid (private), other utilities (private), energy generation plants (private).

Used to work on the same industrial park as a critical part of the national grid. Boy racers near there learned very quickly that you'll have a gun pointed at you for being there, and that's in the UK.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#38

Post by toss1 »

perfunctory wrote: post #3

Off topic. I am getting a cognitive dissonance from the statements like "The airport is part of our national infrastructure...". Heathrow is owned by Heathrow Airport Holdings, private company.

Um, yes, this is a nominally capitalist nation.

In a socialized or communist nation, you would expect all national infrastructure, if not all means of production, to be nationalized, i.e., owned & run by the govt.

In a capitalist society, not only the means of production but many critical national infrastructure structures and services can be owned and run privately.

E.g., power & telecom companies are regulated monopolies. Some roads have been privatized so the company builds & maintains them, utilizing some of the toll money. Lotteries are often private companies running state-sponsored games. In the US, there are private prison operators. Many hospitals in US are private. And of course many of the airports are similarly privately owned.

Obviously results and benefits vary widely by industry and operation.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#39

Post by iteriteratedone »

I see a lot of comments about the governments responsibility.

There are two main ideas to approach.

1. It is in the govs interest to protect this private entity for tax rev and ability to anex it in war time. (we need some extra oil and a landing strip , this place looks good, your airport/farm is now the militarys till the war is over)

2. A private entity is protected by the gov no matter how big or small. As long as it doesnt break the law. This position is not about calculating current value of this one entity but of the general value of portection. This airport foesnt function not only are these tax/tourist revs lost but maybe others.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#40

Post by NeedMoreTea »

roywiggins wrote: post #17
zmmmmm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hyperbole to suggest that risk exists when the protestors are telling everyone the exact date, time and location they will fly the drones. If the airport still chooses to fly airplanes during that time and people still choose to get on them, then I think you can't say the risk was introduced by the protestors. Which is not to say I agree or disagree with the protestors, but please don't dilute the meaning of ter…

The Provisional IRA did the same thing with bombings, and they were definitely terrorists. Not that I think these people are terrorists, but "telling everyone ahead of time" isn't an inoculation.

The IRA generally only gave hours warning. The Manchester bombing got 90 minutes, Birmingham pub bombings about ten minutes.
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