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The Thing

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Re: The Thing

#31

Post by georgeNT »

madengr wrote: post #5

Maybe someday the Soviet side of things will be declassified, and we can read the technical account from that end. Would be interesting. There seem to be some technical unknowns in the article. I don’t think you can get FM back from the passive cavity, just AM, unless you can pump the cavity with feedback. Same goes for re-radiating at a harmonic. Maybe if the Q of the cavity were super high. Again, would be interest…

The receiving equipment is a standard CW illuminator, see compatible model here:

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/01/ctx4000_nsa_e...

Re: The Thing

#32

Post by ascagnel_ »

wyc wrote: post #29

I always wonder why open source mass surveillance isn't in fuller swing. Imagine a Kickstarter for $2 credit card-sized disposable listening devices which can mesh network for autocorrelated quality-enhancing signal reconstruction and 3d localization. They could be hidden behind objects and hard to detect. With a cellularly connected golf ball-sized gateway, they could egress data or receive updates. At this price po…

Why bother with dedicated hardware when most adults carry around a general-purpose device with a microphone, an internet connection, and some vulnerable software that can do the work for you?

Re: The Thing

#33

Post by wyc »

huhtenberg wrote: post #8

Soviets attempted to repeat this in the 80s when passive eavesdropping devices were embedded into concrete slabs and columns used in a construction of new US embassy and supplied by local contractors [1]. From what I remember the case lingered well into Perestroika period when complete documentation on this project was passed to the Americans as a gesture of "goodwill and friendship", presumably in exchange for chick…

Once on an international flight, I overheard some construction workers describe how the US government must fly in US citizenship-holding personnel and US sourced materials in construction of certain foreign projects for security reasons. Does anyone know more about this?

Re: The Thing

#34

Post by ascagnel_ »

elvecinodeabajo wrote: post #15
madengr wrote: post #5

Maybe someday the Soviet side of things will be declassified, and we can read the technical account from that end. Would be interesting. There seem to be some technical unknowns in the article. I don’t think you can get FM back from the passive cavity, just AM, unless you can pump the cavity with feedback. Same goes for re-radiating at a harmonic. Maybe if the Q of the cavity were super high. Again, would be interest…

I think it stills classified because it stills being in use.

This wouldn't surprise me -- some stuff, even if it's older, is still in use because it works well. Numbers stations[0] are still a thing because they're (relatively) cheap to set up, reliable, and virtually impossible to trace the source.

Re: The Thing

#35

Post by ptero »

Lev Termen is a legend. His work and inventions (as a young engineer; under Ioffe; in prison, etc) shows a huge breadth. Such coupling of talent in physics and engineering has always been rare.

Re: The Thing

#36

Post by dlgtho »

huhtenberg wrote: post #8

Soviets attempted to repeat this in the 80s when passive eavesdropping devices were embedded into concrete slabs and columns used in a construction of new US embassy and supplied by local contractors [1]. From what I remember the case lingered well into Perestroika period when complete documentation on this project was passed to the Americans as a gesture of "goodwill and friendship", presumably in exchange for chick…

There is a famous Soviet joke about it.

Question to Armenian Radio:

- What is American embassy built from?

- Micro-concrete.

- What's Micro-concrete?

- 10% concrete, 90% microphones

Re: The Thing

#37

Post by Tech1 »

wyc wrote: post #33
huhtenberg wrote: post #8

Soviets attempted to repeat this in the 80s when passive eavesdropping devices were embedded into concrete slabs and columns used in a construction of new US embassy and supplied by local contractors [1]. From what I remember the case lingered well into Perestroika period when complete documentation on this project was passed to the Americans as a gesture of "goodwill and friendship", presumably in exchange for chick…

Once on an international flight, I overheard some construction workers describe how the US government must fly in US citizenship-holding personnel and US sourced materials in construction of certain foreign projects for security reasons. Does anyone know more about this?

(Just FYI I don't know if I could put a source / article on this, but this information was information that Robert Hanssen allegedly leaked to the Russians [Aldrich Ames also leaked similar things and a lot of the same HUMINT sources]. I initially read this in a Robert Hanssen non-fic book a while ago)

Apparently, during the construction of the embassy in (edit: Moscow) -East Berlin-, the construction company (surely at the direction of the KGB / GRU) placed passive bugs in the concrete (they only transmit when blasted with microwaves at the right frequency and would avoid counter-intel sweeps unless active). They built the buildings almost pre-fab style, laying the concrete out then assembiling it. It's then when the bugs were placed.

The west eventually learned about this, if I recall correctly, it was from a Russian defector by the codename of Mother.

It was called Operation Top Hat (that's where i'd start googiling). The US knew the embassy in (edit: Moscow) -East Berlin- was bugged on the first 3 floors by the Russians as well as having secret hollow support columns with clandestine access to the building. The decision was made to just not use the first 3 floors of the embassy for classified discussion. The remaining floors were built by Americans and undoubtedly under FBI/OGA watch.

IIRC there was also a network of tunnels leading from the embassy in West Berlin to under the wall to listening posts.

Edit: my memory is shot apparently. It was in Moscow, not Berlin. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/private-tour-cias-inc... https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-07-29-mn-177-st...

I think i screwed up another thing Hanssen revealed and that was a tunnel from West Berlin to East Berlin and under the Soviet embassy.

Re: The Thing

#38

Post by artur_makly »

and now..just imagine what China has been listening to on all the cells sent out from their factories into our homes ;-) Privacy & Secrets are soo 2000.

Re: The Thing

#39

Post by gloflo »

artur_makly wrote: post #38

and now..just imagine what China has been listening to on all the cells sent out from their factories into our homes ;-) Privacy & Secrets are soo 2000.

Can't be worse than all the software manufactured in the US.

Re: The Thing

#40

Post by elvecinodeabajo »

ascagnel_ wrote: post #34
elvecinodeabajo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it stills classified because it stills being in use.

This wouldn't surprise me -- some stuff, even if it's older, is still in use because it works well. Numbers stations[0] are still a thing because they're (relatively) cheap to set up, reliable, and virtually impossible to trace the source.

The great old engineering mantra: 'If it works, don't change it'.
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