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New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

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Re: New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

#31

Post by Randypea »

nradov wrote: post #19
Randypea wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of different blood tests for these 30 cancer types, each of which can detect a high likelihood of cancer. Each blood test tells you YES or NO. Then this type of radiotracer scan will tell you WHERE. Toray Japan is developing this test: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Japan-s-Toray-see... Until this is available you could ask your PCP for the corresponding blood test for all the types of…

Blood tests really don't tell you yes or no. They give you quantified biomarker concentrations which are correlated with certain types of cancer. In some cases the diagnosis is clear, but often it's more of a gray area.

True, if the level found is 150% of normal, it's a problem. In my case, I was misdiagnosed for 10 years. When my docters finally ran the test for the right biomarkers, they found levels 50 times normal. So maybe the tests need wider margins to screen out false positives.

Re: New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

#32

Post by Randypea »

Randypea wrote: post #29
lipman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing. You got FDG PET ("older") as well as FAPI? Are you in the US? Curious if FAPI is already in wide use.... does FDG not work that well for NET ?

I am in the US and FDG PET does not work for NET. The "older" scan was Pet radiolabeled with indium-111. Comparison is here: http://prntscr.com/o02jsg Left is the newer scan, which uses Gallium 68. The primary tumor is uppermost right side, liver metastasis is left side, and small lower lighted up areas are lymph nodes. All will be removed soon. Lit up area below is the radiotracer in my bladder before urinating. :-)

Yes it was an Octreotide scan.

Re: New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

#33

Post by steve_adams_86 »

Jolter wrote: post #3

That CT image of the breast cancer patient... Ouch. Not easy to look at.

This happened to my mom when she had breast cancer. I wonder if this is a normal progression with that type of cancer? I have no idea why they did it, but they did do an autopsy when she died and her doctor basically said she was riddled with tumours throughout her entire body (she lived 7 years with cancer after diagnosis, who knows how long before). When I saw these images that's immediately what I thought of. It's very unsettling.

Re: New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

#34

Post by nostromo »

Waterluvian wrote: post #22
asdf21 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would also force advancements in the field re: distinguishing false positives. More information is better than less, imo.

False positives can be actively harmful. Unnecessary biopsies lead to unnecessary infections and stress and such.

Cancer is also harmful, particularly if not found early.

Re: New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

#35

Post by iooi »

asdf21 wrote: post #21
ascar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity: What would you be willing to pay for it? Did you mention you pay yourself? Or do you expect your healthcare provider to cover the thousands of dollars for tests without any indication?

Hospitals don't want people to "pay themselves" when they can bill insurance companies 10x as much.

Not sure why you think that, hospitals charge insurers a lot less than their sticker price.

Pricing is usually done as multiples of what Medicare pays, so insurers will build their network and usually have a cap at 2x Medicare. If you are taken to an out-of-network hospital during an emergency, the hospital can charge their regular prices, although this usually gets negotiated down for extended in-patient stays. As an uninsured individual, however, you would be liable for the complete amount, which is a lot more than what the insurance pays.

Re: New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

#36

Post by tecleandor »

Randypea wrote: post #29
lipman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing. You got FDG PET ("older") as well as FAPI? Are you in the US? Curious if FAPI is already in wide use.... does FDG not work that well for NET ?

I am in the US and FDG PET does not work for NET. The "older" scan was Pet radiolabeled with indium-111. Comparison is here: http://prntscr.com/o02jsg Left is the newer scan, which uses Gallium 68. The primary tumor is uppermost right side, liver metastasis is left side, and small lower lighted up areas are lymph nodes. All will be removed soon. Lit up area below is the radiotracer in my bladder before urinating. :-)

Wow! Do you have DICOM files for that! Good thing they found all that! Good luck with all the surgery, you'll get better soon!

Re: New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

#37

Post by Nasrudith »

docker_up wrote: post #28
nkrumm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MD here. It's "not done" because it could hurt you. Here's the Bayesian argument: - Let's assume a lab test (or imaging test) has a 1% false positive rate and 100% sensitivity (that would be pretty good for many tests and imaging modalities!). - The cancer you screening for has a 1% incidence as well (low-ish, for the sake of argument). - Therefore the chance that a "positive" scan would be due to a false positive or…

Maybe figure out a better way to verify that doesn't require biopsy? Maybe use machine learning in conjunction with better data? I don't know enough but there must be other techniques we could devise that don't require major invasive surgery every single time. Just sitting on our hands on this information and letting people die is the worst decision. We need to improve our technology to get better results, not throw…

Well the ways that don't involve surgery are themselves less accurate heuristics with false positives. How can they calibrate without being certain if it is a true or false positive or negative?

Better imaging is an option but that often falls into dangerous in itself or easier said than done like say trying to do detection of cancer by scent.

Machine learning is fundamentally GIGO and tends to learn smartass shortcuts if one isn't careful. "The healthy sample data is less zoomed in while the cancer ones are zoomed in - therefore full chest x-ray is fine but a lung X-ray is cancer."

Re: New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

#38

Post by Randypea »

tecleandor wrote: post #36
Randypea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the US and FDG PET does not work for NET. The "older" scan was Pet radiolabeled with indium-111. Comparison is here: http://prntscr.com/o02jsg Left is the newer scan, which uses Gallium 68. The primary tumor is uppermost right side, liver metastasis is left side, and small lower lighted up areas are lymph nodes. All will be removed soon. Lit up area below is the radiotracer in my bladder before urinating. :-)

Wow! Do you have DICOM files for that! Good thing they found all that! Good luck with all the surgery, you'll get better soon!

Yes I have all the Dicom files and put all the images on a password protected server so I can share with prospective surgeons. This really helped me find the best possible surgeon. THANKS!

Re: New Radiotracer Can Identify Nearly 30 Types of Cancer

#40

Post by whytaka »

Randypea wrote: post #4

I was diagnosed with NET cancer recently and my doctor incorrectly ordered the older radiotracer scan. It only showed 1/2 of my tumors, missing the most important primary tumor. This newer scan/radiotracer showed double the number of tumors including the most important step of finding the primary. I will soon have cytoreduction surgery to remove the tumors. Unless you have other biomarkers showing cancer, the issue f…

Best of luck with your surgery.
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