Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stripe Chargeback Protection

stripe.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 219 posts

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#31

Post by jasonkester »

eeke wrote: post #24
jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

We can send you a webhook on every dispute being created ( https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks ) and you could use the API to either refund the underlying charge or accept the dispute (and refund the underlying charge). We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s). These are notifications from the issuers that the customer is likely going to dispute a charge. If you're hap…

How does that work? When I'm notified of a dispute, the first thing I do is go in and refund the charge. I still have to watch the whole dispute resolution process play out and have it be ruled against me.

How would I go about stopping it before it starts, as you seem to imply is possible?

Edit to add: Does it even make a difference if I go in and refund the disputed payments? It sounds like I get dinged either way and the customer gets their money back either way. Should I save myself the effort?

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#32

Post by peteretep »

jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

> to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason we're still billing them" or to just plain decide that the last six months of charges were fraudulent

I've had both of these things happen as a consumer. Coschedule kept billing me for six months after I cancelled (and my accounts administrator didn't know we'd cancelled), and I had Experian in the UK continue billing me for six months after they'd disabled my account but hadn't told me. In the former case, they refunded it straight away once I pointed it out, and in the latter I had to escalate a little, and start talking about a small claims court, but they refunded it in the end.

I guess my point is, both of these are valid consumer complaints, and waving them away as being stupid consumers probably isn't that useful for anyone. Further down, in another comment, you imply that this is deceit / fraud.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#33

Post by eeke »

Liron wrote: post #20

Any plans to offer this without requiring using Checkout specifically? We use Stripe Elements because it enables a more native seamless payment collection UX.

(PM on Chargeback Protection here.) We are rolling out with our new Checkout first because it allows us to tweak the checkout flow and e.g. send a payment which we’re on the fence about to 3D Secure (3DS) but let obviously good payments go through without 3DS. We are also exploring ways to expand Chargeback Protection to other integration options!

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#34

Post by czzarr »

eeke wrote: post #8

I’m the PM on Chargeback Protection. Startups told us they don’t want to deal with the hassle and unpredictability of chargebacks; that’s why we built this. Happy to answer any questions you have.

0.4% is an extremely steep price for a company like mine doing over $2.5m in annual turnover (saas) which has a very low fraud rate. I actually think currently we pay less than that by doing nothing (meaning letting Paypal handle it, and losing every case). However I'd gladly pay a few thousands per year for it, or be able to pay it on selected transactions (only US for instance).

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#35

Post by jasonkester »

wayoutthere wrote: post #30
jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

Unless you have an easily visible telephone support number, I’m issuing a chargeback. It simply takes less of my time and idgaf about your business model.

Isn't that harder than replying to your last invoice mail with the words "Please refund this and cancel my subscription"?

Why involve the telephone?

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#36

Post by MichaelApproved »

jasonkester wrote: post #31
eeke wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can send you a webhook on every dispute being created ( https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks ) and you could use the API to either refund the underlying charge or accept the dispute (and refund the underlying charge). We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s). These are notifications from the issuers that the customer is likely going to dispute a charge. If you're hap…

How does that work? When I'm notified of a dispute, the first thing I do is go in and refund the charge. I still have to watch the whole dispute resolution process play out and have it be ruled against me. How would I go about stopping it before it starts, as you seem to imply is possible? Edit to add: Does it even make a difference if I go in and refund the disputed payments? It sounds like I get dinged either way a…

Doesn't sound like they're implying that it's possible.

Sounds like they're allowing you to automate the dispute process but it'll still be a negative mark on your account.

Side note, are you getting anywhere near the number of disputes for this to matter to you? Seems like you have good refund policies and you'd probably be below the threshold for account termination.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#37

Post by tacosx »

The chargeback is one of the few tools consumers still have with real power. Sure fraud is still a problem, but it's a really uncomfortable proposition to start making chargebacks an abstracted cost sink for the corporations.

Of course the fact that this is an upsell line item means only big businesses will pay for it, the smallest businesses owned by the people just starting out will be the only ones who actually suffer punitively from chargebacks.

Some things shouldn't be streamlined. Some pain is good. This is a really unfortunate choice by Stripe.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#39

Post by icebraining »

pancho111203 wrote: post #27
eeke wrote: post #8

I’m the PM on Chargeback Protection. Startups told us they don’t want to deal with the hassle and unpredictability of chargebacks; that’s why we built this. Happy to answer any questions you have.

Completely unrelated, but please add an alternative fee structure more appropriate for microtransactions. Stripe has a vast amount of useful features from which my business could benefit, but its cost is prohibitive as all our transactions are for low amounts (1$ or less), which make your 30cent fee a 30% of the total. We are forced to use credit cards directly and Paypal, as both offer a much lower fixed fee (someti…

https://support.stripe.com/questions/microtransaction-suppor...

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#40

Post by jasonkester »

peteretep wrote: post #32
jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

> to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason we're still billing them" or to just plain decide that the last six months of charges were fraudulent I've had both of these things happen as a consumer. Coschedule kept billing me for six months after I cancelled (and my accounts administrator didn't know we'd cancelled), and I had Experian in the UK continue billing me for six months after they'd disabled my ac…

I do have the occasional customer claim to have "cancelled 3 months ago" via email. We keep good records of such things, so we know him to be mistaken but I always make a point of apologizing and issuing an immediate refund.

I word my "Why did you open a chargeback" mails the same way, and offer to handle things via a refund (and to please close the dispute because it affects our business). But the people who use their credit card company instead of email or the prominent Cancel button on the website don't tend to ever respond to those mails.

It's frustrating, because so many people have had to deal with health clubs and Comcast that they just assume every business will fight against them if they want to cancel.

Post reply on HN