US demands social media details from visa applicants • Hacker News Board

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#31

Post by Buttons840 » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 10:59 PM UTC

ycgeu wrote: post #12

keerthiko wrote: post #4

“A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.” Immigrants are non-citizens are among the weakest members of American society (an outsize number of laws that impact them and zero capacity to participate in its political machinery)

Non-citizens aren't members of the nation, so the US are okay if we base morality on that random quote.

That's not a satisfactory excuse or interpretation of the quote.

Let's say North Korea selected a few of the leading family and declared they are "members", under such circumstances would that quote imply that North Korea is the greatest nation, because all its "members" have near King-like status?

Or likewise, can a nation increase its greatness by declaring the weakest among them to be "non-members".

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#32

Post by dudul » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 11:00 PM UTC

keerthiko wrote: post #4

“A nation’s greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members.” Immigrants are non-citizens are among the weakest members of American society (an outsize number of laws that impact them and zero capacity to participate in its political machinery)

Do you realize a massive amount of immigrants are actually US citizens and have exactly the same rights as born Americans? With the exception of running for President.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#33

Post by reallydude » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 11:00 PM UTC

human20190310 wrote: post #10

AaronFriel wrote: post #7

This will have a chilling effect on speech in this country, which is extremely sad. Academic and trade conferences would be best taken elsewhere. And job seekers? Prefer remote. For me as an American, this is, I guess, fine now. I won't be affected right away. But I fully expect other countries to institute reciprocal policies.

1) Doesn't the First Amendment restrict the US government from curtailing free expression and free association anyplace, not just within US borders? 2) Isn't anything that results in a "chilling effect" tantamount to restriction? I expect this will have a chilling effect abroad, among people who travel to the US, more than within the US.

> Doesn't the First Amendment restrict the US government from curtailing free expression and free association anyplace, not just within US borders?

Just within the Borders. Borders (border crossings), worldwide, have extra-national areas that are neither country for practical reasons (like keeping each other's soldiers out of casual range), where rights are not enforced. The US doesn't enforce rights, in an area where it has no authority.

"Chilling effect" is a recent idiom, which is subjective. The US judicial system makes a determination on what is or isn't a restriction.

My take is that this is another background-investigation tool. So what? People casually (and stupidly) aggregate a large amount of their own personal information in one place and then act surprised when a country wants to check it before allowing you to cross the border (eg Canada's restriction on US drunk drivers). I don't understand the outrage of what amounts to more paperwork.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#34

Post by joelrunyon » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 11:01 PM UTC

diveanon wrote: post #13

I meet a lot of tourists on a daily basis, and I have not heard anyone say they want to visit the United States in a very long time. I can't imagine how much worse it is for people that are forced to travel there for business. If the United States is trying to isolate itself from the rest of the world it is definitely succeeding. As a side note, I have not spoken to a tourist from the US on the island where I live in…

What island are you on?

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#35

Post by diveanon » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 11:02 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #22

diveanon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not see a breakdown by age demographic in that report. The overwhelming majority of the tourists I encounter fall into the Millennial bracket, and I don't think it is possible for them to be less enthusiastic about visiting the US. Maybe that will change once they have kids who want to go see Harry Potter World in Orlando, but as it stands I think most of my customers would rather visit North Korea than the US.

> The overwhelming majority of the tourists I encounter fall into the Millennial bracket, and I don't think it is possible for them to be less enthusiastic about visiting the US I’m a millennial with lots of international millennial friends. Nobody likes these measures. But getting into most countries is no walk in the park. As much as I hate to admit this, the pressure to end these policies will never come from tour…

Depends on where you are coming from.

Most of the Europeans that come through have the financial means and strong enough passports to go pretty much anywhere they please. Same goes for most Japanese and Chinese.

My Arab customers however have the money, but getting a visa is a near impossibility.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#36

Post by pgt » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 11:02 PM UTC

If enough heretics have your name in their social network, your visa will be denied. Requiring social media on visa applications is like enforcing everyone to use Truecaller (don't use it!).

This feels like the start of a U.S. social credit system.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#37

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#38

Post by FabHK » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

avocado4 wrote: post #18

diveanon wrote: post #13

I meet a lot of tourists on a daily basis, and I have not heard anyone say they want to visit the United States in a very long time. I can't imagine how much worse it is for people that are forced to travel there for business. If the United States is trying to isolate itself from the rest of the world it is definitely succeeding. As a side note, I have not spoken to a tourist from the US on the island where I live in…

>> "I have not heard anyone say they want to visit the United States in a very long time." US had the 3rd largest number of tourists in the world in 2017 (after France and Spain). [1] Though YOY is trending down in Trump years. [1] https://www.e-unwto.org/doi/pdf/10.18111/9789284419876

The YOY growth rates of the top 10 destinations are between max +24.1% (Turkey) and min 0.7% (USA).

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#39

Post by apo » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

Very discouraging to see this, especially because the overreach appears to have no limit. Today it's visa applications. Tomorrow it could be US citizens trying to get passports, driver licenses, or collect social security/medicare benefits.

On the other hand, a growing awareness of the many dangers posed by poor digital hygiene could ultimately lead to greater interest in privacy tools and practices. Along the road, though, lives will be destroyed as the ground shifts underneath them. Especially troubling is the possibility that previously-legal activities could be punished well into the future if not outright prosecuted.

Re: US demands social media details from visa applicants

#40

Post by addicted » Sun, Jun 02, 2019, 11:05 PM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #3

All the more reason to not have them. Though email addresses? Are they demanding all pen-names too?

My fear is the day when the absence of a social media presence itself makes you a suspicious character in the government, and AI’s eyes.