Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

qz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 59 posts

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#31

Post by AaronFriel »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #27
xupybd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this may be it. America has a ban on trade with Iran. I wouldn’t be surprised if American companies also are required to prevent them spreading information.

That would be unconstitutional wouldn't it?

Not a lawyer and would be interested to read a constitutional law journal on this.

I think the answer hinges on where the speech is considered to be, and whether the speaker is an American.

An Iranian national handing out leaflets in Washington, D.C. is protected speech by virtue of it occurring in the United States.

An American national posting on the internet is protected from United States government orders to censor their speech, regardless of where they post it, by virtue of their nationality.

Where it gets murky is: "Is an Iranian national posting on Facebook 'in America'? Does it depend on whether they make a comment in Iran or in the United States?"

That's the sort of hypothetical that a court might be keen to sidestep entirely and instead ask, "Is it constitutional for the US to order a US company (Facebook) to engage in non-viewpoint neutral censorship?"

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#32

Post by NeedMoreTea »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #14
jnaddef wrote: post #8

What bothers me is that there are very few things that are not propaganda. All Fox News article are propaganda, all CNN articles are propaganda, but yet they are accepted? Clearly a distinction is made between 'acceptable propaganda' and 'unacceptable propaganda', and this distinction is made by Facebook, an American company. How acceptable is that?

I don't believe that Fox and CNN have political propaganda in the sense you might imply. Bias, narrative creating ... it's propaganda-like, but it's not the right word. Interestingly - almost all US outlets have a pretty strong 'nationalist bias'. We don't think of CNN or MSBC like that, but if you watch the press from outside the US (especially during a war) it becomes quite evident. When push comes to shove, the ma…

I agree with the point about the nationalism, and occasionally jingoism from US outlets across the political spectrum.

Fox, The Sun, and other Murdoch media has so definite an agenda, that it can't be distinguished from propaganda. I don't know how else to describe it. Have seen so little output from CNN that I can't comment.

Murdoch's cosying up to those in power - of both sides of politics - is so blatant and outrageous, in several of the countries he's operated in it's a wonder it's not firmly illegal. It has been his intent to turn many an election.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#33

Post by stjohnswarts »

warp_factor wrote: post #2

Welcome to Facebook Co. Where a clique of Silicon Valley exec yuppies now decide what is right and what is wrong for us to see. It's a very slippery slope. Cannot wait for the next elections where any candidates with politically "wrong" ideas will see their pages silently being discarded or randomly hidden from timelines without warnings.

They are free to exclude whatever they like, they're a private company and not beholden to what you think they should be doing. If they do the wrong thing they will go on the trash-heap of bad ideas in history, so far they're doing okay as far as being a business goes.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#34

Post by yeahigotgoats »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #33
warp_factor wrote: post #2

Welcome to Facebook Co. Where a clique of Silicon Valley exec yuppies now decide what is right and what is wrong for us to see. It's a very slippery slope. Cannot wait for the next elections where any candidates with politically "wrong" ideas will see their pages silently being discarded or randomly hidden from timelines without warnings.

They are free to exclude whatever they like, they're a private company and not beholden to what you think they should be doing. If they do the wrong thing they will go on the trash-heap of bad ideas in history, so far they're doing okay as far as being a business goes.

this is such a lazy, sheepish argument. we all know what is happening.

when your private internet provider starts to shut you down for your stupid ideas, or your private bank denies you service lets see how you feel then. and to act like the government does not already regulate the hell out of private business is just a foolish position.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#35

Post by sonnyblarney »

jnaddef wrote: post #17
sonnyblarney wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that Fox and CNN have political propaganda in the sense you might imply. Bias, narrative creating ... it's propaganda-like, but it's not the right word. Interestingly - almost all US outlets have a pretty strong 'nationalist bias'. We don't think of CNN or MSBC like that, but if you watch the press from outside the US (especially during a war) it becomes quite evident. When push comes to shove, the ma…

I 100% agree with you, so let me clarify what I was trying to say in my first comment. US will label as propaganda any article coming from RT - for Russia, or that Iranian journal - for Iran, and now FB starts simply censoring those contents. At the same time in Russia or Iran, news coming from US are labelled as propaganda as well. Depending on where you live, you get fed either one of these "propaganda" and you fee…

Please don't put CNN/MSNBC/Fox in the same camp as RT, or Chinese state sponsored news. That's not fair.

This is not a situation of moral relativity.

CNN, even Fox, are actually very independent news outlets. Their news is news. (Especially the non-editorial stuff, is usually above bar)

On some, mainly political issues, they are biased.

On some national issues, they 'close ranks'.

But they are not propaganda outlets.

RT is absolutely propaganda outlet. RT is an organ of the Russian state, created specifically to promote Russian interest abroad, and to serve as a mouthpiece for the government, specifically Putin.

Trump has friends in Fox News, but quite a number of haters; many popular folks there disagree with him quite loudly, a lot. Trump has no friends in most of the rest of the press, and there's no opportunity for him to set the agenda directly for example.

RT was designed so that Putin could create the narrative he chooses, and to oppress any opposition to his regime, or the state.

Even the BBC/CBC etc. have quite a degree of independence from state organs. They have obvious political leanings in many situations, and surely will work with the state on some issues, but they are in many ways 'more independant' because they don't have to survive on click-bait.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#36

Post by duxup »

Aeolun wrote: post #15

What is up with any of the big corporations making these kinds of decisions ‘without appeal or comment’. It borders on criminal to conduct business that way.

Science fiction generally seemed to assume some evil AI or robots would take over the world and make arbitrary / unappealable decisions ....but naw we humans are happy to do it to each other.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#37

Post by avereveard »

jnaddef wrote: post #11

Seeing the number of downvotes I triggered, it would seem that the concept of all news being subjective it still not accepted, even on HN...

well of course, only _the other side_ news are subjective, with "_theirs_" carefully grouped to include people the other side of the oberton window, to sap the group legitimacy whole

tactic as old as dirt, but a lot people still falling for it

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#39

Post by sonnyblarney »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #32
sonnyblarney wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that Fox and CNN have political propaganda in the sense you might imply. Bias, narrative creating ... it's propaganda-like, but it's not the right word. Interestingly - almost all US outlets have a pretty strong 'nationalist bias'. We don't think of CNN or MSBC like that, but if you watch the press from outside the US (especially during a war) it becomes quite evident. When push comes to shove, the ma…

I agree with the point about the nationalism, and occasionally jingoism from US outlets across the political spectrum. Fox, The Sun, and other Murdoch media has so definite an agenda, that it can't be distinguished from propaganda. I don't know how else to describe it. Have seen so little output from CNN that I can't comment. Murdoch's cosying up to those in power - of both sides of politics - is so blatant and outra…

Rupert Murdoch is a businessman who 'sells news as a product' to a specific niche just like every other news outlet.

The amount of spin on his network is not one bit different from, I would say MSNBC for example. Perhaps a little more than CNN, but not by much.

Ted Turner (founder of CNN), and other such media moguls follow exactly the same pattern of creating 'news as a product' and occasionally using it to create/defend narrative either personal or political.

That's how the news business mostly has always worked.

'Murdoch hate' largely exists because he normally spouts opinions that a some groups really disagree with, and so they want to consider him propaganda.

The heads of NBC/CBC are under fire for their own extremely indefensible manipulations, such as 'killing' the Ronan Farrow story a few times before it went public. Great article here: [1].

Literally covering up a mass rapist for 'favours' or because they're buddies with Weinstein. And these people still have jobs?

'News' is rife with this kind of stuff, and I believe Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch are 'the same man'.

I don't believe CNN or Fox are propaganda outlets, rather, they serve mostly their business interest which is to cater to a 'certain audience', they will bend here and there given their execs/owners wishes, and during times of 'national concern' they'll close ranks a little bit.

Rupert Murdoch is actually much closer to 'normative media mogul' than he is unique. Even the families that own major media outlets in us (i.e. NY Times) and Sweden etc. have their agendas

[1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-nbc-killed-ronan-farrows-w...

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#40

Post by Waterluvian »

Udik wrote: post #29

This is an Israeli propaganda page with 500k likes: https://m.facebook.com/DailyCupOfJane/ The "about" section presents it as: "Sugar, spice, and everything nice.Changing the world, one mug at a time. We're your daily girl power pick-me-up. Cup of Jane is a community launched by TIP’s Future Media Project in DC. We love our communities!" The discreet acronym TIP stands for "The Israel Project": https://www.theisraelp…

Not sure if this is too far off topic or if I'll get roasted for this. "Cup of Jane" is the kind of title that's so awfully on the nose that I'd mistake it for satire.
Post reply on HN