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Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

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Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#31

I respect and admire the risks Musk is willing to take and am amazed that he is able to find financial backers for his projects. But I have to wonder whether the internet connection can be maintained during cloudy days and what the expected upload/download speeds will be and finally what the expected costs will be. Affordable and globally available internet could be a game-changer. If viable, couldn't it challenge wi…

I’m not an expert but I don’t think clouds will affect it.

Do clouds prevent you from getting a GPS signal? (I know these satellites are LEO but I don’t think that should matter)

Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#32

Looks a lot like the cloud ark from Neil Stevenson’s hard science fiction book ”Seveneves”. The long of the short of it is that moon goes boom, kills life on earth, humanity survives onboard the ISS and a flurry of small habitation pods which are splayed out into a string so they share an orbit, but isolated in case they get hit by space debris. The book came out in 2015, and despite having a fictional plot, nearly a…

that novel was amazing. I loved the 5000 year jump too. Although I found it difficult to visualize some of the futuristic parts. I think a movie is being made based on the novel.

Interesting, I loved the book until the jump, after that I found it to be too ridiculous. The submarine storyline was absurd.

Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been the case since the dawn of spaceflight. Iridium flares in particular have been noticeable even in daytime. Far less of a problem than airplane lights let alone city lights for the enjoyment of the night sky. The ISS is MUCH larger and brighter.

This is tired logic. The fact remains that if I go out and look up in the sky and see moving lights, I'm going to be annoyed. Airplane, satellite, whatever, it's not a good experience and it is absolutely a problem still regardless of the comparison to other problems. However someone said it would be rare. As long as I don't look up and see non-natural moving lights in the sky I'm cool with it.

Why do moving lights in the sky irritate you?

Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#34

Imagine all the people who have never heard about SpaceX that see these. They will think the aliens have arrived :)

https://twitter.com/hashtag/ufo Already happening.

https://phys.org/news/2019-05-encounters-spacex-satellites-d...

Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#35

I respect and admire the risks Musk is willing to take and am amazed that he is able to find financial backers for his projects. But I have to wonder whether the internet connection can be maintained during cloudy days and what the expected upload/download speeds will be and finally what the expected costs will be. Affordable and globally available internet could be a game-changer. If viable, couldn't it challenge wi…

>But I have to wonder whether the internet connection can be maintained during cloudy days and what the expected upload/download speeds will be and finally what the expected costs will be.

Depends on the size of the constellation. Ultimately I think they want to have 3 sats visible at any given time which should be enough. The bands used can penetrate though anyway. I've seen numbers quoted of speeds up to 1gbps, so basically "good enough". I'm currently using a 4 mbps connection just fine and the fastest I have access to is 8 mbps down 0.5mbps up. And I'm getting my browsing done just fine. Costs are up to discussion, the main selling point of Starlink is backbone and the receiver was according to Shotwell one of the main research points to drive the cost down( 1k$ at the time but an obscure tech, they want it down to 300$).

>Affordable and globally available internet could be a game-changer. If viable, couldn't it challenge wireless carriers and ISPs?

No because of density limitations. They can't support enough bandwidth for an entire city. Also direct LoS is required so big buildings will limit you.

>Also, aren't there geopolitical ramifications. Would China, Russia, EU, etc allow their citizens to access the starlink system? Or will starlink have to be censored, filtered and monitored in these regions?

Current sat internet providers just don't sell their receivers in China or any country that doesn't allow them.

Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#36
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are currently spreading out and once they have spread out enough they will move on their own power to their final orbits.

Hmmm well I hope it's not noticeable because starlink is planning 24 orbital planes with 60 satellites per. With that it's safe to say you could see up to 50 or so of them in a night due to the constellation pattern. That's a lot of flickering and moving light in the sky when coupled with AWS' initiative also. I'm hoping your right but at first glance it doesn't seem great.

I think their end goal with the full constellation deployed is 3 satellites in view at any time. And they should only shine at dusk/dawn.

Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#37
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’d like to experience this for myself. Find out when the satellites pass over you! Here's the TLE data that someone estimated: http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2019/0207.html Here's an online calculator: https://www.satellite-calculations.com/TLETracker/SatTracker... Plug in the TLE data, select your town or enter your coordinates, and generate a 24 hour projection! Find a time where the elevation is higher than 10…

Is there a map out there showing their current position? Tried n2yo.com, but as fas as I know it isn't catalogged yet.

No there isn't, but I saw this tool on Twitter that you can plug TLE data into: https://www2.flightclub.io/dashboard

Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#38
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are well over a thousand operational satellites in low earth orbit currently, plus I don’t know how many dead ones. Have you noticed those? They’re only visible for about an hour after sunset, since the satellite itself still has to be illuminated to be visible.

Hmm no. That does put me at more ease. And yeah I included that last part in the estimate for seeing up to 50, otherwise the projection would be of course up to half of all of them.

Don’t get me wrong, Starlink will be a substantial increase in the number of satellites. But if you don’t notice them now, it probably won’t be overwhelming after.

Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#39
post #31

I respect and admire the risks Musk is willing to take and am amazed that he is able to find financial backers for his projects. But I have to wonder whether the internet connection can be maintained during cloudy days and what the expected upload/download speeds will be and finally what the expected costs will be. Affordable and globally available internet could be a game-changer. If viable, couldn't it challenge wi…

I’m not an expert but I don’t think clouds will affect it. Do clouds prevent you from getting a GPS signal? (I know these satellites are LEO but I don’t think that should matter)

GPS is a bit different. It's uses multiple frequencies, so receivers can correct from some of the water vapor attenuation. I suspect that GPS satellites also broadcast at a much higher power than the starlink terminals will. Starlink is also using a much higher frequencies: GPS is around 1ghz. Starlink is in the 12-40 range since it used Ku and Ka band. Ku and Ka are much more susceptible to problems from moisture in the atmosphere. That's actually why K Band was split into Ku(under) and Ka(above). The middle parts around 22ghz are not useful for communicating through lots of atmosphere because so much of the signal gets absorbed by water (sidenote-- NASA and NOAA use signals around 22ghz to measure water vapor in the atmosphere. That's why they're pissed that the FCC auctioned off 24ghz spectrum for 5G-- it's going to interfere with forecasting things like hurricanes).

Re: Starlink satellite-train visible with the naked eye

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been the case since the dawn of spaceflight. Iridium flares in particular have been noticeable even in daytime. Far less of a problem than airplane lights let alone city lights for the enjoyment of the night sky. The ISS is MUCH larger and brighter.

This is tired logic. The fact remains that if I go out and look up in the sky and see moving lights, I'm going to be annoyed. Airplane, satellite, whatever, it's not a good experience and it is absolutely a problem still regardless of the comparison to other problems. However someone said it would be rare. As long as I don't look up and see non-natural moving lights in the sky I'm cool with it.

Lots of people enjoy Iridium flares or ISS passes. Have satellites bothered you in the past? You’ve got to really be awed by NIMBYism extending all the way into space.
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