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5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

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Re: 5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

#31

Post by Negitivefrags »

Nextgrid wrote: post #20
mochomocha wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... So when it's Google or FB blogging about technology originally developed to serve ads, it's hype and cool... But when the authors are more honest about the motivation behind developing a certain piece of tech, it's "kind of sad"?

I’ve never said anything Facebook or Google have done is ever cool, however I do understand your point of view as my opinion is not representative of what the majority of HN feels. But I’d like to set the record straight, I never think anything FB or Google is doing is cool.

Your opinion is exactly what the majority of HN feels.

As I read this article I was thinking "I bet the first comment on the article will just be complaining about the effort going into ads", and I wasn't wrong.

Honestly, it's becoming tiresome. Low latency computing is a great area to talk about, and instead it's derailed by this essentially off-topic discussion.

Re: 5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

#32

Post by wolco »

dooglius wrote: post #24
packetslave wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you legitimately think the world would be a better place if gmail, youtube, flickr, reddit, EVERY search engine, and basically every web content site disappeared? Because that's what happens if you don't have web advertising. Free things disappear without revenue. Or maybe you'd prefer to go back to the days of randomly-targeted or "PUNCH THE MONKEY" ads. Because THAT'S what happens without ad auctions and targeti…

Everything you describe could exist as a paid service, and I suspect would be much higher quality that way.

A paid youtube? Not sure they would be worth it without the endless amounts of free content by free users.

Facebook? There are plenty of sites like facebook without users. Charge for an account.. reduce the userbase, the platform loses value without the free users.

Re: 5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

#33

Post by wolco »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #16
packetslave wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you legitimately think the world would be a better place if gmail, youtube, flickr, reddit, EVERY search engine, and basically every web content site disappeared? Because that's what happens if you don't have web advertising. Free things disappear without revenue. Or maybe you'd prefer to go back to the days of randomly-targeted or "PUNCH THE MONKEY" ads. Because THAT'S what happens without ad auctions and targeti…

> Do you legitimately think the world would be a better place if gmail, youtube, flickr, reddit, EVERY search engine, and basically every web content site disappeared? They might disappear, but not without replacements. Hosted email, videos, photos, discussion boards, and search are all services that would exist with or without a business model built on ad money. I don't care if they are free or paid. But the fact is…

I miss punch the monkey ads. Life seemed more carefree.

The web doesn't work without free services. For everyone who has extra money they would gladly use to pay for everysite they visit the majority won't and you will end up buying overpriced bundles from your phone company and your privacy will be worse. Free allows users a chance not to be tracked. Once you start involving money you can easily be traced.

Re: 5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

#34

Post by _cs2017_ »

Nextgrid wrote: post #5

It’s kind of sad that all this engineering effort was spent to essentially make the internet a worse place for everyone and waste users’ time and attention. Imagine if a crime syndicate would brag about their efforts to make their worldwide criminal activities more efficient.

I can totally see where you're coming from. But major engineering achievements require efforts of many skilled people, who often like to be paid really well for their work. And the way the world works today is that a lot of big money is in the fields that are of questionable value to the society: advertising, finance, military, etc. And even in the fields that seem at first glance to be socially valuable, like health care, most of money comes not from healing people but from playing the game of "rip off public or private coverage providers".

Therefore I think the best we can hope for is that engineering breakthroughs achieved in profit driven fields will gradually leak into other fields where they can actually be used to improve people's lives.

Re: 5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

#35

Post by rkallos »

nullwasamistake wrote: post #28
rkallos wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work with Wael. Development is still ongoing. One implementation uses Golang, the other uses F# with a library that wraps libuv for faster network performance. Pony was used to write the stress-testing client for both implementations.

I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread, but since you'll see the reply here; look into Vert.X if you haven't already. It already does most of what you want and has support for native epoll transport. I'm not sure what led Vert.X to be discarded, maybe not a Java shop? But we've used it extremely successfully for high performance REST and I know of several high profile tech companies that swear by it. There's nothin…

Thanks for the recommendation! However, there are a few reasons why Vert.X wasn't considered, the biggest ones being that we're not a Java shop and the service in this blog post isn't HTTP/REST.

While the bandwidth benchmarks are fun to see and write blog posts about, we also care a lot about keeping tail latency at or below 2ms than we do about getting more bandwidth at this point.

Re: 5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

#36

Post by bearmcbearsly »

mikeash wrote: post #10
packetslave wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you legitimately think the world would be a better place if gmail, youtube, flickr, reddit, EVERY search engine, and basically every web content site disappeared? Because that's what happens if you don't have web advertising. Free things disappear without revenue. Or maybe you'd prefer to go back to the days of randomly-targeted or "PUNCH THE MONKEY" ads. Because THAT'S what happens without ad auctions and targeti…

I’d much rather go back to randomly targeted “punch the monkey” ads. Far better than the current crop of ads which are usually one of fraudulent, malware, or borderline pornographic. Was I supposed to respond “oh no, current ads are so much better”?

> current crop of ads which are usually one of fraudulent, malware, or borderline pornographic.

That doesn't match my experience at all, but maybe you can chalk it up to targeting?

Re: 5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

#37

Post by Thaxll »

deforciant wrote: post #13
rkallos wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work with Wael. Development is still ongoing. One implementation uses Golang, the other uses F# with a library that wraps libuv for faster network performance. Pony was used to write the stress-testing client for both implementations.

Do you use libuv on go side as well?

You don't want to use C lib in Go for performance reason.

Re: 5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

#38

Post by nullwasamistake »

rkallos wrote: post #35
nullwasamistake wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread, but since you'll see the reply here; look into Vert.X if you haven't already. It already does most of what you want and has support for native epoll transport. I'm not sure what led Vert.X to be discarded, maybe not a Java shop? But we've used it extremely successfully for high performance REST and I know of several high profile tech companies that swear by it. There's nothin…

Thanks for the recommendation! However, there are a few reasons why Vert.X wasn't considered, the biggest ones being that we're not a Java shop and the service in this blog post isn't HTTP/REST. While the bandwidth benchmarks are fun to see and write blog posts about, we also care a lot about keeping tail latency at or below 2ms than we do about getting more bandwidth at this point.

Ah yes. The GC latency could be a problem. Java may still be viable with the new ZGC garbage collector. And Vert.X uses Netty underneath which is mostly protocol agnostic.

Still, those issues and not being a Java shop makes Vert.X/Netty likely a bad fit.

Thanks for replying with a well thought out response!

Re: 5M Bid request/s, 2ms max response time – The Road to Damascus

#40

Post by paulkon »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #34
Nextgrid wrote: post #5

It’s kind of sad that all this engineering effort was spent to essentially make the internet a worse place for everyone and waste users’ time and attention. Imagine if a crime syndicate would brag about their efforts to make their worldwide criminal activities more efficient.

I can totally see where you're coming from. But major engineering achievements require efforts of many skilled people, who often like to be paid really well for their work. And the way the world works today is that a lot of big money is in the fields that are of questionable value to the society: advertising, finance, military, etc. And even in the fields that seem at first glance to be socially valuable, like health…

This is why federal research and development agencies should pay higher salaries to attract said engineers.

Breakthroughs achieved would be funded by taxpayers and customers of these agencies and the patents for technology produced would be more likely enter the public domain.

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