Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978 • Hacker News Board

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#31

Post by 1337shadow » Thu, May 23, 2019, 1:57 AM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #22

It's terrible to think that maybe if Exxon and others didn't invest in lobbying and disinformation campaigns against climate change maybe humanity would have started acting 30 years earlier. It's 2019 and humanity is barely starting to think about acting. Global CO2 emissions keep growing as if we were in "business as usual". Humanity needs to realize the magnitude of the problem. Climate change is, by far, the bigge…

Weren't documentaries predicting a global climate cooling in 1978 ? In that context, did Exxon think they were saving the climate ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-_SXLMMfo

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#32

Post by keithnz » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:10 AM UTC

1337shadow wrote: post #31

pier25 wrote: post #22

It's terrible to think that maybe if Exxon and others didn't invest in lobbying and disinformation campaigns against climate change maybe humanity would have started acting 30 years earlier. It's 2019 and humanity is barely starting to think about acting. Global CO2 emissions keep growing as if we were in "business as usual". Humanity needs to realize the magnitude of the problem. Climate change is, by far, the bigge…

Weren't documentaries predicting a global climate cooling in 1978 ? In that context, did Exxon think they were saving the climate ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-_SXLMMfo

They were predicting a mini ice age due to reduced solar activity. That is studied and incorporated in the climate models we have today.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#33

Post by cbHXBY1D » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:10 AM UTC

Almost everyone on HN recognizes that climate change is an existential threat to (most) life on earth. There is less agreement on how to mitigate it's effects.

One solution which I favor is nationalization of US oil companies. While hardly discussed in the US, it's a solution that is currently being discussed in the UK and has been done by many different countries, though usually because of the legacy of imperialism and colonialism. Overtime I have come to the realization free market solutions and incentives are incapable of spurring the changes needed to transition to a cleaner form of energy, especially with the short time scale we have before results are disastrous.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#34

Post by bayareanative » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:14 AM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

bnolsen wrote: post #7

Having now been in China for several weeks this beating the drum trying to make americans feel guilty (and give power over to other people) is absolutely absurd. You want to control pollution the first places to start are china and india. The US in comparison produces negligible impact.

It’s my understanding that America has contributed to the majority of total emissions since fossil fuel use began. I’ve heard that recently China has eclipsed us in annual emissions, but we still emit a lot of CO2 (and probably the most per capita). We have the power to develop new technologies and were the ones who benefitted from the majority of historical carbon emissions. With that information it seems to me just…

Tax carbon severely and plow collections into massive-scale CCS and SRM. It won't happen until the horse has long since left the barn.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#35

Post by mikeash » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:19 AM UTC

Remember this the next time someone tries to tell you that oil companies are just giving customers what they demand and that the companies themselves aren’t at fault.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#36

Post by breakyerself » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

1337shadow wrote: post #31

pier25 wrote: post #22

It's terrible to think that maybe if Exxon and others didn't invest in lobbying and disinformation campaigns against climate change maybe humanity would have started acting 30 years earlier. It's 2019 and humanity is barely starting to think about acting. Global CO2 emissions keep growing as if we were in "business as usual". Humanity needs to realize the magnitude of the problem. Climate change is, by far, the bigge…

Weren't documentaries predicting a global climate cooling in 1978 ? In that context, did Exxon think they were saving the climate ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-_SXLMMfo

Even in the 70s most climate scientists were expecting human caused global warming. The cooling thing was more a media phenomenon.

1965 - 1979 there were a total of 7 scientific papers predicting a cooling climate. Compared to 42 predicting human caused global warming (Peterson 2008).

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#37

Post by mc32 » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

cbHXBY1D wrote: post #33

Almost everyone on HN recognizes that climate change is an existential threat to (most) life on earth. There is less agreement on how to mitigate it's effects. One solution which I favor is nationalization of US oil companies. While hardly discussed in the US, it's a solution that is currently being discussed in the UK and has been done by many different countries, though usually because of the legacy of imperialism…

So Venezuela nationalized their petroleum, I think Mexico did something similar. And Iran. I don’t see where those actions have kerbed the export or internal use of petroleum.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#38

Post by EForEndeavour » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

gedy wrote: post #28

Maybe no help from Exxon, but US per capita CO2 has been decreasing since 1978. But China and India have increased per capita, which is scary given their huge populations.

Both US population and absolute US greenhouse gas emissions have been growing over time. Population has simply grown proportionally faster than emissions. So yes, US emissions per capita have decreased over time, but total US emissions have been rising, and that's what affects climate.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#39

Post by mr_toad » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:37 AM UTC

cbHXBY1D wrote: post #33

Almost everyone on HN recognizes that climate change is an existential threat to (most) life on earth. There is less agreement on how to mitigate it's effects. One solution which I favor is nationalization of US oil companies. While hardly discussed in the US, it's a solution that is currently being discussed in the UK and has been done by many different countries, though usually because of the legacy of imperialism…

That would only work if climate change deniers weren’t in charge of governments.

If the latest Australian elections are anything to go by, popular (popularist) voter sentiment is swinging towards denial.

Re: Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978

#40

Post by Fricken » Thu, May 23, 2019, 2:39 AM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #22

It's terrible to think that maybe if Exxon and others didn't invest in lobbying and disinformation campaigns against climate change maybe humanity would have started acting 30 years earlier. It's 2019 and humanity is barely starting to think about acting. Global CO2 emissions keep growing as if we were in "business as usual". Humanity needs to realize the magnitude of the problem. Climate change is, by far, the bigge…

We've known about the greenhouse effect and it's threat potential for nearly 2 centuries. Exxon just helped add to a growing body of evidence that we ignore.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect