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Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

derrickreimer.com

31–40 of 221 posts

Re: Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

#31
I work on something that would be a competitor to Level, so I'm sad to hear this, not only because of market viability, but also because I share the belief in Slack being anathema to any sort of focused work. There's a lot to unpack here, but briefly:

— The amount of effort, design expectation and polish everyone expects from a product is exponentially increasing. 'I'm one guy, Google is 75,000 people' is no longer a valid argument. Arguably it never was, but especially now you cannot ship a product that does not do what it says it will do to a very high degree. That effectively makes for longer product development processes and probably makes bootstrapped competitors to Slack unviable. At least, this was the logic I ended up going for institutional venture capital: it buys me the time to make it work.

— Non-real-time communication is useful when the team size grows above a certain point, however when that happens the companies grow and have higher expectations of their tools. So this market is an interesting one in that it largely forbids scrappy, just-alpha-don't-mind-me kind of products. Trying to sell to smaller (less than 5 people) startups will fail since they do not yet have a problem with Slack, and anything above, companies get increasingly desperate, however, the tool space rapidly diminishes as companies grow.

— This sort of non-real-time communication requires a lot of trust in other people in your company, in that they will see and eventually respond. In real-time, you can know if somebody hasn't responded in a few minutes. Your delay risk from a single question moves from a few minutes to a few hours, to a day, or larger if your team is distributed across the planet. It requires a certain type of team with this kind of trust to make it work. It's a cultural issue as much as a tools issue, and a good designer not only builds the tools to make things work, but also builds them in a way that they shape the team culture so that the tool can work. In our specific case, our main goal is to make your team a more trusting, more efficient one, not just to make you focus by reducing notifications spam.

— Derrick is a bit of a known person, with a podcast and all, and I think in this case it worked against him somewhat. He mentions receiving interest from his fans, this (fans of your personality) is an audience that converts especially poorly.

— Slack is a complex tool serving a variety of needs, so it is very hard to replace it without being Slack - and if you try that, you'll end up with just an inferior copy. However, what one can do is to handle a subset of tasks it does better than it. However, even this will take multiple years for a team that has no runway problems because of the expectation of polish mentioned above.

— "Everyone is lying", as a designer, I do take a bit of an issue with that: it's not that everyone is lying, but that everyone has different incentives. And when you're a known person, those incentives align with keeping you happy, so that you'd become their acquaintance for potential use in the future. This is not conscious, this is just human nature. This happens even when you are just a nice person that they don't know. Empathy from your users is a powerful thing. It is also your enemy.

They are not lying to you. They want you to be happy. I won't blame users for that. It is your (our / mine / other designers') job to counteract that.

I have a lot more, but I'll leave it here since this is already too long because I think about these all day every day. If you think this is interesting, though, happy to chat. (Email in my profile.) We're launching pilots in a few weeks. The core idea, I like to say, is that Slack is a marketer’s idea of what a good comms tool should be, while Aether Pro is an engineer’s.

Re: Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

#33
I'm not sure I understand the business model Derrick was pursuing, but the objective seems very interesting. Maybe instead of shutting it down he should consider pivoting Level to a FOSS approach modeled on something like lichess. Maybe a set of early adopter companies would be interested in joining in to help build and support the product. There would obviously be less or maybe no immediate financial incentive in it for him, but he would be continuing with a very constructive aim. In my experience, that kind of involvement in a growing project usually pays dividends, one way or another.

Re: Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

#34
post #4

"The gist is that it’s tough to get unbiased feedback during customer validation." - I wish this was taught along with lean startup content. Too many times I have heard founders say they validated the idea when all they have done is gotten biased feedback while asking self-fulfilling questions.

I say it every time, to every founding team I meet. Read “The Mum Test”[1]. It will make you aware that you to get unbiased feedback you need to remove your identity from the idea so that people aren’t nice to protect you. [1] http://momtestbook.com/

I also keep recommending this book to everyone. The TL;DR is: NEVER ask questions about hypotheticals. Ask people about what they do, how much they pay, how much time it takes, and so on. Facts, not answers to "Would you use this if...?"

Re: Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

#35

"Every large team I spoke to had an exceptionally high bar and was unwilling to entertain Level until it was significantly more “mature.”" They all made the right decision, as it folded only a couple months later.

Harsh, but completely true

Re: Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

#36
post #4

"The gist is that it’s tough to get unbiased feedback during customer validation." - I wish this was taught along with lean startup content. Too many times I have heard founders say they validated the idea when all they have done is gotten biased feedback while asking self-fulfilling questions.

Yep, it is extremely hard. Lean Startup makes it sound trivial when it's almost impossible. Almost nobody is going to clear up their day to talk to you about their problems, answer your questions, give you feedback, be your guinea pig, etc. The ideal way to validate it is to be so immerse in the industry/problem such that you understand most of the pain points. Do the job that your ideal customer is doing. Attend the…

You don't need them to clear up a whole day, and people are surprisingly willing to talk about their job and their frustrations.

Re: Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

#37

"Every large team I spoke to had an exceptionally high bar and was unwilling to entertain Level until it was significantly more “mature.”" They all made the right decision, as it folded only a couple months later.

That kind of circular reasoning is only more maddening because it makes sense. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy combined with a prisoner's dilemma.

Re: Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

#38

Slack has a staying power that the author didn't catch: once you've got all kinds of apps reporting data directly into Slack, and all kinds of rooms set up for specific data purposes, it's even more sticky than email. Before a Slack-using company would switch, the competitor would need to support many/most/all of the integrations that the company is using. You've really only got two chances to win Slack's customers:…

You could make this same argument to argue that Slack would fail against email.

Something like: there are all kinds of email integrations, user-specific and group-specific setups, etc. at companies. How can Slack ever compete?

The answer was that Slack was so much better for many companies that it made sense to suffer the pain of switching.

The company that beats Slack will likely be 10x better communication software or something very similar but distributed much more effectively (maybe Microsoft Teams in the enterprise).

Re: Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

#39
post #38

Slack has a staying power that the author didn't catch: once you've got all kinds of apps reporting data directly into Slack, and all kinds of rooms set up for specific data purposes, it's even more sticky than email. Before a Slack-using company would switch, the competitor would need to support many/most/all of the integrations that the company is using. You've really only got two chances to win Slack's customers:…

You could make this same argument to argue that Slack would fail against email. Something like: there are all kinds of email integrations, user-specific and group-specific setups, etc. at companies. How can Slack ever compete? The answer was that Slack was so much better for many companies that it made sense to suffer the pain of switching. The company that beats Slack will likely be 10x better communication software…

Well, and email integrations are easy to replace - it's a single, uniform interface.

Re: Walking Away from the Product I Spent a Year Building

#40

"Every large team I spoke to had an exceptionally high bar and was unwilling to entertain Level until it was significantly more “mature.”" They all made the right decision, as it folded only a couple months later.

Chicken and egg. perhaps it wouldn't have folded if customers had stayed.
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