Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

wweek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 51 posts

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#31

Post by JamesBarney »

xrd wrote: post #13

I'm curious, does anyone from Portugal or Amsterdam have any comments on this story? Obviously, easy access to drugs is one side of this story. But, that's also the case in Portugal and Amsterdam, right? Are narcoterrorists from Central and South America the difference? Is this a new heroin, why the 10x leap in needles in five years? Is the difference that mental health is left to someone other than the state? As a n…

My guess is an increase in drug use is only part of the reason. I imagine another is an increase in homelessness in Portland. (probably due to a combination of increased rents and just being a cool destination for 20 somethings)

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#32

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

xrd wrote: post #27
Manfred wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands everyone is required to have healthcare by law. It's less likely that people with mental illnesses end up on the street. For people who do end up on the street or addicted there are safe places to use drugs, recovery programs, employment services, and public housing. Almost all of this is run by the government.

I'm interested in the statement "safe places to use drugs." Can you share any more details on that?

I don't know about Amsterdam but we have places they can shoot themselves. S place where they also get needles and other stuff necessary.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#33

Post by matt4077 »

xrd wrote: post #27
Manfred wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands everyone is required to have healthcare by law. It's less likely that people with mental illnesses end up on the street. For people who do end up on the street or addicted there are safe places to use drugs, recovery programs, employment services, and public housing. Almost all of this is run by the government.

I'm interested in the statement "safe places to use drugs." Can you share any more details on that?

Have (a few) here in Berlin as well. Basically, it’s a room to inject. There’s usually a social worker to help guide people to programs, medical assistance, etc. when asked.

There are also “needle exchanges” where you can get new ones when you return used ones, to keep them off the street. Some may be operated in those rooms, but there are also automated boxes (basically vending machines) out on the streets.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#34

Post by matt4077 »

jesssse wrote: post #29
trynewideas wrote: post #21

A good side read is the Street Response team proposed by Street Roots, funding for which is in the proposed city budget: https://news.streetroots.org/2019/03/15/portland-street-resp... Clean and Safe only works in downtown and often works in service to businesses who complain, and homelessness is an issue across the city. Portland police often resort to ineffective sweeps to clear camps, and are prone to deploying fo…

Endless enablement will worsen the environment. Criminals should be charged with crimes, not receive free services.

Being poor isn’t a crime. Many homeless people never commit crimes.

Your tough-guy jingoism also just ignores all the evidence that shows that just punishing people at the lowest end of society simply doesn’t work. Send them to jail (which costs more than college) and they don’t get out and say “oh, now I have the skills to get my life back in order”.

Being homeless is terribly uncomfortable and punishing already. Nobody who operates on your simplistic sticks-and-no-carrots approach would ever be homeless in the first place.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#35

Post by dmode »

briandear wrote: post #19
sologoub wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it’s better to not provide the people in this horrid situation with any dignity in the hopes that something changes and shames society into some unknown action? Portland IS trying to provide public toilets and a cleaner environment on the streets at least. It sounds like the person profiled for this article actually was able to get her life together. It’s a step. SF can learn a lot from Portland. For example, it i…

> SF can learn a lot from Portland. SF can learn a lot from Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio: they don’t have city blocks covered with shit, needles, or people living in tents on the sidewalks. The more SF “helps,” the more they attract. Houston is the 4th largest city and has a fraction of the homeless. Red districts seem to have less income inequality and fewer homeless and lower poverty.[1] The San Francisco Approa…

[flagged]

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#36

Post by krageon »

knowledgepowers wrote: post #25
max76 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I learned via a friend that there are many hidden addicts in society. There are professionals who shoot H just to maintain and avoid getting dope sick. A typical daily heroin addiction costs $100-$200 a day, or ~55k/yr. Some professions can cover the expense, but it costs serious money. When continuing with your career while addicted the user is put into a hard situation. Too many sick days from an empty bank accou…

If that is how much it costs, how can people afford it?

This is someone talking about a "typical addiction", which is not a thing that actually exists. There is a wide range of maintenance doses and they don't all cost the same.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#37

Post by EliRivers »

jesssse wrote: post #29
trynewideas wrote: post #21

A good side read is the Street Response team proposed by Street Roots, funding for which is in the proposed city budget: https://news.streetroots.org/2019/03/15/portland-street-resp... Clean and Safe only works in downtown and often works in service to businesses who complain, and homelessness is an issue across the city. Portland police often resort to ineffective sweeps to clear camps, and are prone to deploying fo…

Endless enablement will worsen the environment. Criminals should be charged with crimes, not receive free services.

Many people take a more pragmatic, evidence-based approach that leads to a better outcome.

In the interests of not being passive-aggressive, I'm saying that your absolutist approach is a bad idea and in many cases makes things worse.

I do recognise that there are people who prefer a worse outcome, because they want to see people directly punished, and also people who prefer a worse overall outcome if it makes their lives any better at all (effectively offload all the bad outcome onto other people).

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#38

Post by jesssse »

matt4077 wrote: post #34
jesssse wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Endless enablement will worsen the environment. Criminals should be charged with crimes, not receive free services.

Being poor isn’t a crime. Many homeless people never commit crimes. Your tough-guy jingoism also just ignores all the evidence that shows that just punishing people at the lowest end of society simply doesn’t work. Send them to jail (which costs more than college) and they don’t get out and say “oh, now I have the skills to get my life back in order”. Being homeless is terribly uncomfortable and punishing already. No…

Your solution, which has unfortunately become the status quo, is to allow criminals to freely operate in camps in plain view.

I am correct for wanting criminals held responsible for their crimes.

You want thieves and rapists to freely live on my public pathways.

Some homeless I've met say they moved to Portland because the camping laws are not enforced.

Every illegal camper is breaking the law. The local government decided not to enforce the law.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#39

Post by jesssse »

EliRivers wrote: post #37
jesssse wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Endless enablement will worsen the environment. Criminals should be charged with crimes, not receive free services.

Many people take a more pragmatic, evidence-based approach that leads to a better outcome. In the interests of not being passive-aggressive, I'm saying that your absolutist approach is a bad idea and in many cases makes things worse. I do recognise that there are people who prefer a worse outcome, because they want to see people directly punished, and also people who prefer a worse overall outcome if it makes their l…

I wonder what evidence could be found about my proposed solution of "law enforcement".

Currently, criminals are allowed to live on public pathways and in neighborhood parks.

It's normal to see mountains of feces and needles and water bottle caps.

It's outrageous and absolutely a failure of government.

Re: One Day With the Squad That Removes Needles and Feces From Downtown Portland

#40

Post by Broken_Hippo »

jesssse wrote: post #39
EliRivers wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people take a more pragmatic, evidence-based approach that leads to a better outcome. In the interests of not being passive-aggressive, I'm saying that your absolutist approach is a bad idea and in many cases makes things worse. I do recognise that there are people who prefer a worse outcome, because they want to see people directly punished, and also people who prefer a worse overall outcome if it makes their l…

I wonder what evidence could be found about my proposed solution of "law enforcement". Currently, criminals are allowed to live on public pathways and in neighborhood parks. It's normal to see mountains of feces and needles and water bottle caps. It's outrageous and absolutely a failure of government.

I*m working from memory here, but evidence generally finds that having an actual safety net and giving folks homes to live in works. Making sure folks have mental health care works. Even with folks that insist on trying to stay on the streets ... it seems simply taking them home enough time works.

You could also build centers with toilet facilities for people to live outside if they choose - like campsites, only nicer.

If the people are criminals, the solution is to have better re-integration programs and focus much of the criminal justice system on helping folks instead of being cruel and punishing folks.

You are correct, however, that it is outrageous and an absolute failure of government.

Post reply on HN