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Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

advances.sciencemag.org

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Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#31

Post by esturk »

blondie9x wrote: post #14

Link to the study exactly. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/5/eaau2670 Having just read the study the results make sense. The authors look at car ownership reduction. They find that Uber and Lyft are not actually helping with that. We do not observe a meaningful change in car ownership, with an average of 1.08 cars per household in 2010 and 1.10 cars per household in 2016 (36). This is because as people move…

Did the report account for more road work and construction between that time? Anecdotally, I've noticed more constructions now than before. Maybe that also contributed to the slow down in traffic.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#32

Post by blondie9x »

the_economist wrote: post #22
unreal37 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you take that number, PLUS the number of empty Uber cars, PLUS the number of empty taxis that would not have been empty if there wasn't Uber...

Empty taxis drive around looking for a fare. Empty ubers park and wait.

That just isn't true. They often do drive around and look for fares or go back to a place where they can collect a fare from where one did not exist. Example you pick up Passenger A in dense urban center drop them off in suburb no fares exist there. You need to drive back to the urban center to pick up another Passenger. You have worsened traffic and created extra carbon pollution.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#34

Post by _jal »

kenneth wrote: post #27

> The new findings, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Uber and Lyft vehicles removed Not sure if that's actually what's going on, but if it is, it's a ridiculous conclusion. Let me rephrase: "Japanese cars are making traffic in the USA worse, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Japanese vehicles removed."

Well, no.

Japanese cars are not otherwise distinguishable by their frequent mid-block stop-and-wait actions, for instance, nor for diverting commuters from public transportation.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#35

Post by EduardoBautista »

toast76 wrote: post #30

Anything that makes it more convenient for people to get from A to B in a _car_ will, of course, create more traffic. Convenience increases usage. Uber/Lyft may make it unnecessary for some folks to own a car, but a reduction in car ownership does not mean a reduction in car usage.

One thing Uber/Lyft do for sure is reduce the need for parking spaces, which are at a premium in SF.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#36

Post by matt4077 »

ademup wrote: post #9
rdiddly wrote: post #2

Obviously. They are making it worse by exactly the number of trips that would otherwise have been done by transit, bike, walking or not at all. edit: or now scooters

I don't think it is so simple. Eg: people now taking extra trips because it is easy and cheap to do so. Eg: "I'll just Uber the 6 blocks to my next shopping spot" instead of walking. This happens in my friend group all the time. Plus people traveling to the city at all BECAUSE Uber makes intracity travel easy. Eg: I live in the East Bay and hate driving within the city, but am happy to be escorted around it on a whim…

The comment specifically mentioned non-consumption, i. e. "Not at all".

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#37

Post by rat9988 »

kenneth wrote: post #27

> The new findings, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Uber and Lyft vehicles removed Not sure if that's actually what's going on, but if it is, it's a ridiculous conclusion. Let me rephrase: "Japanese cars are making traffic in the USA worse, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Japanese vehicles removed."

A bit unfair, as you neither have read the original paper, nor even given the benefit of the doubt to the possible deep meaning of "computer model that simulated". It's not like academia is this stupid or peer reviewed papers are that low quality.

There is a link in the article to the original paper, here is if you want to investigate more:

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/5/eaau2670

Material and methods chapter might be of interest for you.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#38

Post by no_username »

_jal wrote: post #34
kenneth wrote: post #27

> The new findings, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Uber and Lyft vehicles removed Not sure if that's actually what's going on, but if it is, it's a ridiculous conclusion. Let me rephrase: "Japanese cars are making traffic in the USA worse, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Japanese vehicles removed."

Well, no. Japanese cars are not otherwise distinguishable by their frequent mid-block stop-and-wait actions, for instance, nor for diverting commuters from public transportation.

If you remove any amount of cars you improve traffic which is why the conclusion is weak.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#39

Post by javawizard »

_jal wrote: post #34
kenneth wrote: post #27

> The new findings, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Uber and Lyft vehicles removed Not sure if that's actually what's going on, but if it is, it's a ridiculous conclusion. Let me rephrase: "Japanese cars are making traffic in the USA worse, based on a computer model that simulated the speed of traffic with Japanese vehicles removed."

Well, no. Japanese cars are not otherwise distinguishable by their frequent mid-block stop-and-wait actions, for instance, nor for diverting commuters from public transportation.

That's fair, but a certain percentage of Uber and Lyft customers are people who would otherwise drive their own car, so any study that removes the effects of Uber- and Lyft-operated vehicles altogether paints an inaccurate picture.

Re: Do transportation network companies decrease or increase congestion?

#40

Post by matt4077 »

rdiddly wrote: post #2

Obviously. They are making it worse by exactly the number of trips that would otherwise have been done by transit, bike, walking or not at all. edit: or now scooters

And, following this, these different effects probably have different values for society, i. e.:

- Replacing public transit = unmitigated bad

- Replacing walking, bike = even worse, bikes are unbeatable for health, space efficiency, energy use, noise, and really any other category

- Replacing using own car = close to neutral, maybe slightly positive, especially when it allows people on the margin forgo car ownership entirely

- Non-consumption = likely positive, taking a trip you otherwise wouldn't take is a sign of increased freedom/participation in society and would tend to outweigh environmental concerns in my subjective judgement

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