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VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

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Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#31

Post by rootusrootus »

_ph_ wrote: post #27
mises wrote: post #18

[

Recharging with fast chargers, e.g. superchargers, should take between 30-40 minutes. And ranges over 300 miles are available too, so a lot of use cases are already covered, and things are getting better still. So the reasonable audience for electric cars is already much larger than the current market share.

It seems like where we are right now with the Model 3 LR is "fill-ups" occur about twice as often and take perhaps 45 minutes. Doable for sure, but it's still at the point where you really benefit from adjusting your schedule to mitigate the timing. E.g. try to plan a meal stop, etc.

But that's just for road tripping. For an everyday car, nearly everyone can use a 200+ mile EV without ever charging anywhere but home. Assuming they can charge at home. If you have to use a supercharger for everything, you could still do it with the LR but it would take more coordination and commitment.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#32

Post by Fins »

andrewmunsell wrote: post #9
mft_ wrote: post #7

Interesting (and great that the bigger manufacturers are starting to come through with their electric offerings) but the price:range ratio doesn't seem great compared to the Tesla model 3? It's hard to be objective with all of the strongly pro- and anti-Tesla nonsense flying around, but I've had a sneaking suspicion for a while that once the market matures a little (with eg Audi, VW, Porsche all offering their first-…

All you really have to do is look at the current e-Tron and iPace efficiency numbers-- the Model X, which is a heavier vehicle with a smaller battery, goes farther.

Audi and Jaguar are also luxury cars, and X isn't.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#33

Post by [deleted] »

Fins wrote: post #32
andrewmunsell wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you really have to do is look at the current e-Tron and iPace efficiency numbers-- the Model X, which is a heavier vehicle with a smaller battery, goes farther.

Audi and Jaguar are also luxury cars, and X isn't.

[deleted]

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#34

Post by bdamm »

After the terrible treatment I received as a Volkswagen TDI customer, I will never buy another VW. Period. They fraudulently sold me a car, then managed to finangle their way out of any financial restitution by putting up not only extensive hurdles for customers who wanted to opt for restitution instead of return, they then penalized customers who experienced delays due to their internal system faults by simply rejecting applications for restitution that were even a little bit out of spec.

Never. Again.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#35

Post by bryanlarsen »

jdietrich wrote: post #23
jillesvangurp wrote: post #10

I've seen a few e-golf's charging on the streets in the past few weeks in Berlin. I assume these are pre-production models. Looks like a normal Golf aside from the charging port. From my understanding, this is a big step for VW. However, short term, they will likely have range and production capacity issues, just like Tesla did not exactly hit the ground running. I would not be surprised if this is merely a stop gap…

>Short term, Tesla could really make VW hurt by ramping up production and dropping price and competing with both their ICE and non ICE offerings. That's a very big could . Tesla have an advantage in terms of battery availability, but they simply don't have the expertise and the experience to build cars at real scale. Tesla are literally building cars as fast as they can, but they've still got a multi-year backlog of…

That's a really big if, and there is strong evidence against it. If they don't have enough batteries to build 50,000 e-trons in 2019, what are the chances they'll have enough batteries to build a lot more e-trons and ID.3's in 2020?

https://www.electrive.com/2019/04/23/audi-revises-production...

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#37

Post by bdamm »

jdietrich wrote: post #23
jillesvangurp wrote: post #10

I've seen a few e-golf's charging on the streets in the past few weeks in Berlin. I assume these are pre-production models. Looks like a normal Golf aside from the charging port. From my understanding, this is a big step for VW. However, short term, they will likely have range and production capacity issues, just like Tesla did not exactly hit the ground running. I would not be surprised if this is merely a stop gap…

>Short term, Tesla could really make VW hurt by ramping up production and dropping price and competing with both their ICE and non ICE offerings. That's a very big could . Tesla have an advantage in terms of battery availability, but they simply don't have the expertise and the experience to build cars at real scale. Tesla are literally building cars as fast as they can, but they've still got a multi-year backlog of…

VW also has years of fooling themselves by prioritorizing the diesel technology over electric development and running an enormous fraud in the process. This will have held them back. I don't think VW can ramp up as fast as they will want.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#38

Post by tzs »

jcfrei wrote: post #29
mises wrote: post #18

[

With the newer 350kW charging stations you can charge up to 80% in about 15 minutes (ie. for a Model S battery). So not much more than filling up with gas. Granted cars which support this will be available at the earliest next year.

I think you are underestimating just how much energy is in a gallon of gas.

In terms of miles per hour of charging or adding gas, gas is still massively faster. Tesla says the new charging stations are 1000 miles per hour.

A gasoline car that gets 25 miles/gallon, at a gas station with pumps that go at 10 gallons per minutes, "charges" at 15000 miles per hour. (10 gallons per minute is the maximum allowed in the US due to EPA rules).

A lot of real world pumps don't achieve that maximum, but usually achieve at least at least 1/3 of that, which would be 5000 miles per hour, still 5 times faster than the upcoming faster Tesla charging option.

One advantage for the EV, though, is that it might be safer to step away from the vehicle while charging? When filling up at a gas station I want to stay with the car because a gas spill can be dangerous. That means any trips to the station's convenience store or bathroom cannot be overlapped with fueling.

I'm guessing that there isn't much that can go dangerously wrong if you step away from a charging EV, and so you can overlap your convenience store and bathroom visits with the charging time. That might be enough to make the total stop time comparable or less for the EV in many cases, even though the actual charging is 5 to 15 times slower on the EV.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#39

Post by jaytaylor »

Based on th emissions scandal, I'm unlikely to ever consider a VW vehicle, period. Even though most of the auto industry is also full of dirty money grubbing scum.

Not sure what the best move is, until giving it more thought I'm avoiding purchasing another vehicle.

Re: VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

#40

Post by alkonaut »

kvakvs wrote: post #28

What game industry and preorders have taught us — never do any preorders until the real thing is out and first reviews start coming in.

There it’s a no brainer. If the game turns out to be great, the extra time required for them to produce another copy for you is zero.

A car you can at least get a bit sooner by taking the gamble of preordering.

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