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A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

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Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#31

Post by feelthedata »

megous wrote: post #15
29athrowaway wrote: post #6

Psychology is not falsifiable and therefore not a science.

Yes, it's a helping profession. The goal is to form models of mind to be used to help people feel/live better. Not to understand the brain. That's why you can have multitudes of wildly conflicting theories and schools of psychotherapy, where most of them work to achieve the goal of wellbeing, but none of which achieve understanding of how human brain works. (of course, some pretend they do, and try to portray this to…

> That's why you can have multitudes of wildly conflicting theories and schools of psychotherapy, where most of them work to achieve the goal of wellbeing, but none of which achieve understanding of how human brain works. (of course, some pretend they do, and try to portray this to the patients - as if the ideology the school of therpay holds is the truth about the human brain)

There's not yet a Wikipedia page for "Computational Psychiatry". I guess that very definable category of psychiatry doesn't like to publish.

Are transference and countertransference of traits like extraversion a result of the (indeed widely varying) therapeutic methods or the result of just spending some quality time together rewarding self-focus and insight?

There may be some quantifiable rejections of guesstulative models of cognition (and personality!) available due to advances in neuroimaging which are enabling computational neuroscience (which does have a Wikipedia page for it)

Computational neuroscience: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_neuroscience

> Computational neuroscience (also known as theoretical neuroscience or mathematical neuroscience) is a branch of neuroscience which employs mathematical models, theoretical analysis and abstractions of the brain to understand the principles that govern the development, structure, physiology and cognitive abilities of the nervous system.

Clean Language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Language

> As James Lawley and Penny Tompkins describe it, Grove realized many clients were describing their symptoms in metaphors drawn from the exact words of previous therapists, instead of from their own experience

There, that should help with the disinhibition and extraversion.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#32

Post by specialist »

I've changed my personality a few times. Twice purposefully, that I know of.

First time, having exhausted all other ideas for improvement, I decided to fake being happy, using ridiculously positive words for every situation. "How are you today?" "Phenomenal!" While initially it was kinda sarcastic, at some point it became sincere. Roughly three years later, I woke up one day said "Phenomenal!" to myself, and was surprised that I meant it. The change was so slow, subtle, I didn't sense the transition.

Years later, I found the book How You Talk Changes How You Think. So apparently I'm not the only person with this experience. Also, I had read up about social cognition (swarm intelligence), how we learn from each other. At the time, there was some research showing that we individuals conform and change our minds without realizing it or any memory of it. (Scary!)

Second time, I ran for public office. I usually play to win, regardless of the odds. So I decided to become like the winners. I changed my outward personality. How I stand, smile, eye contact, etc. I stopped swearing (vulgarity). I learned to how to do small talk, vague noncommitmental positive agreement. (eg "Wow, that's a great idea, tell me more.", per Guy Kawasaki per Jean-Louis Gassée). I met thousands of people. And, frankly, in the aftermath, the experience completely converted from an extrovert into an introvert.

I've also changed personalty a few times unwillingly.

I was proscribed high dosage prednisone & cyclosporine for years. They made me insane. Suicidal. Mania. Super erratic. It took me years to "detox", become psychologically normal.

I had a very rough childhood. I remember being loving and affectionate as a toddler. But I became angry, distrustful and distant.

So. All these wild swings of personality. I honestly don't know who am I. When I try to describe myself (dating profiles), I can only describe how I think I behave, at this time. Is that accurate? Stable? No idea. I also don't know how much aging and experience factor in.

And I don't know where the lines are between personality, character, and daily behavior.

If I could travel back in time, I'd love to be able to administer myself personality assessments over time, maybe chart the changes.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#33

Post by sharkweek »

__s wrote: post #17
charleyramm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it was necessary to go through this process with a therapist, or could a less expensive alternative have had the same effect?

As with many things, a therapist offers one to exchange money for time spent figuring out things on your own I've found success without therapy through minimal exercise over no exercise & framing things as neutral Framing things as neutral: I'm Canadian, so during Winter I've made a point to perceive the statement "I'm cold" as a neutral statement. A sensory experience as opposed to an affliction of pain. Also focuss…

I started taking cold showers in the morning about two months ago to practice this exact thing.

After about a week, you sort of learn to neutralize the feeling of being cold as just that, a feeling. And a temporary one.

It’s a good reminder for other “negative” feelings, and something I can point my brain to with other emotions I don’t like, anger, anxiety, etc. They all pass fairly quick the less I dwell on them.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#34

Post by feelthedata »

feelthedata wrote: post #31
megous wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's a helping profession. The goal is to form models of mind to be used to help people feel/live better. Not to understand the brain. That's why you can have multitudes of wildly conflicting theories and schools of psychotherapy, where most of them work to achieve the goal of wellbeing, but none of which achieve understanding of how human brain works. (of course, some pretend they do, and try to portray this to…

> That's why you can have multitudes of wildly conflicting theories and schools of psychotherapy, where most of them work to achieve the goal of wellbeing, but none of which achieve understanding of how human brain works. (of course, some pretend they do, and try to portray this to the patients - as if the ideology the school of therpay holds is the truth about the human brain) There's not yet a Wikipedia page for "C…

"And where is the past in relation to us?"

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#35

Post by petra »

specialist wrote: post #32

I've changed my personality a few times. Twice purposefully, that I know of. First time, having exhausted all other ideas for improvement, I decided to fake being happy, using ridiculously positive words for every situation. "How are you today?" "Phenomenal!" While initially it was kinda sarcastic, at some point it became sincere. Roughly three years later, I woke up one day said "Phenomenal!" to myself, and was surp…

>> I met thousands of people. And, frankly, in the aftermath, the experience completely converted from an extrovert into an introvert.

That's interesting. Could you please share more ?

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#36

Post by eswat »

charleyramm wrote: post #13
calewis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who suffers from depression and has gone to therapy for over 5 years (I am also on medication), please try and force yourself to go. It will most likely change your life for the better, if not, what have you wasted? A bit of money and a few hours of your time? It could make you better at dealing with your depression and, as a consequence, make you feel happier. You might need to try a few different therapi…

Do you think it was necessary to go through this process with a therapist, or could a less expensive alternative have had the same effect?

To piggy-back on the personal trainer analogies earlier, alternatives like CBT tools, podcasts, books, etc. are good augmentations once you’ve learned “good form” on how to work with your depression through a therapist.

The alternatives aren’t going to really push you to unpack thoughts that might be holding you back or know to switch things up if your situation becomes very dire.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#37

Post by themodelplumber »

qzw wrote: post #7

Maybe it’s little discussed because that’s the intended effect? A lot of simple things can create positive changes in aspects of your personality, such as meditation, a consistent exercise routine, enough sleep, etc.

Exactly. And think about stressors, too, from a simple weekly to-do list or new years resolution to the maintenance of a basic friendship. These are all going to create additional anxiety and affect the unconscious drive toward personal change.

I used to coach a client who emphasized a lack of neurosis and anxiety as if it was a key selling point for her personality. But she also noted that she was experiencing frequent interventions by family and work colleagues over her behavior, and she complained of having no friends. Within days I found I had to intervene myself! Her communications were truly difficult to experience. In order to "do" social humanity, we need a certain amount of constant adjustment (which causes some stress and anxiety), and it doesn't have to drive us crazy. If it's not there, society quickly finds ways to push back or protect itself.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#38

Post by yboris »

calewis wrote: post #12
lkadr wrote: post #10

After years of depression, I'm sure my personality is one of the cause of me still being depressed. And if I went to therapy, I'd expect and want it to change. But change is scary, and I suppose that's why some depressed persons don't want to seek help. There's sometimes comfort in suffering. Another reason is that the not-desesperate me feels shallow and boring. But there's probably a hopeful me that's not. I haven'…

As someone who suffers from depression and has gone to therapy for over 5 years (I am also on medication), please try and force yourself to go. It will most likely change your life for the better, if not, what have you wasted? A bit of money and a few hours of your time? It could make you better at dealing with your depression and, as a consequence, make you feel happier. You might need to try a few different therapi…

Thank you for sharing. Sincerely curious what you mean by "A bit of money". I'm lucky that I didn't have to have therapy. My guess is unless your insurance/job covers mental health, it's at least $50/hour (closer to $100 or $150 if in a major city). Surely not much for the possible benefits (and on a developer salary), but I'm wondering how expensive such services are.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#39

Post by ta1234567890 »

yomly wrote: post #4

What even is "personality" - leaving aside technical and dictionary definitions, if you --the person-- are the sum of your life experiences, can you ever truly not be you? I pose this because I encounter resistance from people to the notion that they can change themselves, lest they lose some notion of their "self", and personality is often equated with "self" from my experience.

Agree with your sentiment. At that point is a philosophical issue though. What exactly do you mean by "you" and "self"?

There's a special network in the brain called the Default Mode Network (DMN), which is responsible for our sense of "self" or ego. The DMN can be shut down and you can feel what it's like to not be "your self".

If you are curious about this, lookup Gary Weber on YouTube. Michael Pollan's latest book (How to change your mind) is also very good.

Re: A little discussed effect of therapy: it changes personality (2017)

#40

Post by onemoresoop »

sjg007 wrote: post #24
lkadr wrote: post #10

After years of depression, I'm sure my personality is one of the cause of me still being depressed. And if I went to therapy, I'd expect and want it to change. But change is scary, and I suppose that's why some depressed persons don't want to seek help. There's sometimes comfort in suffering. Another reason is that the not-desesperate me feels shallow and boring. But there's probably a hopeful me that's not. I haven'…

One thing that may help is to label your depression as it's own independent thing. Something that exists outside of your core self. Even give it a name, say Dave. Then when you are feeling depressed say, hey that's just Dave, why is Dave feeling this way? Is there another perspective that Dave isn't seeing etc...

This mind trick works for some and at its core it's the same idea of compartmentalizing. There are different ways to get to compartmentalizing and yes, it does help clear the mind, reduce anxiety/mind chatter by grouping and labeling things/thoughts somehow (by personal choice) such that when something arises to the conscious mind it can be located, acknowledged and dealt with at a later time if needed.
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