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Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

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Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#31

What gets me is that software has been a mainstay of modern business for _at least_ 30 years. And this whole time, every single professional software developer has been telling every single non-software developer the exact same thing, over and over: this takes longer to do than you think. If, say, 80% of developers were knocking things out, problem free, in an hour or two and the other 20% were hanging back like a 50…

This isn't all on the non-developers. I've walked into two rooms this week, which contained several senior developers, and when I asked them about non-functional requirements, they had to ask what they were, and why they were important.

I've also seen teams where the Defintion of Done doesn't include any steps at all towards deployment. Done is when someone approves the pull request.

Not surprisingly, it takes longer for those teams to 'complete' a change. In the former case, they are continuously surprised, and angered, by 'requirements' that 'no one' told them about. In the later, they stop halfway, and wonder why everyone is waiting on them, because it's 'development complete'.

Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#32

What gets me is that software has been a mainstay of modern business for _at least_ 30 years. And this whole time, every single professional software developer has been telling every single non-software developer the exact same thing, over and over: this takes longer to do than you think. If, say, 80% of developers were knocking things out, problem free, in an hour or two and the other 20% were hanging back like a 50…

Taylorism still exists. The employees in the lower rungs of the organization must be managed by people higher in the org. But when you hire a manager that doesn't understand the work that his employees are doing you get into this situation.

The only way to fix this is to have someone who understands the work at the highest levels of the organization. But that is impossible because the organization is designed to hire people without the dev background at the executive level

Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#33

What gets me is that software has been a mainstay of modern business for _at least_ 30 years. And this whole time, every single professional software developer has been telling every single non-software developer the exact same thing, over and over: this takes longer to do than you think. If, say, 80% of developers were knocking things out, problem free, in an hour or two and the other 20% were hanging back like a 50…

It's a failure of education. This is one reason why everyone should have a basic understanding of code: not so they can all become programmers, but so they can get a mental handle on these systems and the people who do program them.

It's the auto-mechanic problem; if you don't understand the thing yourself, you have no way to know whether or not you're being taken advantage of. So you tend to just split the difference and maintain a constant, moderate skepticism.

Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#34
When the customer demands a written explanation of exactly why a small change took 4 hours, an engineer has to investigate that completely and write up an analysis in language and sufficient detail for the customer to understand. The given letter would take me a couple hours to revise and get the wording just right and diplomatic. Since the customer is challenging the billing and there is the subtext of fraud, the letter needs to be approved by management and reviewed by legal. The engineer and others are also taken off other tasks to work on this letter project. Providing a legally sound and technically accurate letter of this nature likely costs around $1000 to provide, plus lost opportunity cost.

Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#35

I'm not a dev, but this feels like arguing with a strawman. There are really customers who complain that a change to their codebase took a single day to implement? I would be utterly thrilled if I could get a vendor to turn around anything that quickly

I've worked in a web agency that billed by the hour.

Clients would ask for justification on why something would take 5h of support instead of 2.5h because the previous similar request was done in half the time during the development of the app.

What they don't understand[1] is that if they ask for an urgent fix after deployment, they're going to pay for a developer that had free time this very moment to pull and install the project. That dev then need to read and understand the codebase, make the fix, test it, make a pull request, ask for someone else's billable time to approve the pull requests, merge any conflicts, schedule a release, push the release, test again and document the new feature. And that's if the request is in fact as simple as it look like.

Often, requests look very similar but are very different to each other. "Why does it takes 3 hours to add a button on the sidebar while it takes 1 hour to do it in the content of the FAQ page?" Well, one is done by the content team and require no code or release. The other needs to be done in the code. Etc.

[1] They are told in very simple words that this is how it works.

Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#36

What gets me is that software has been a mainstay of modern business for _at least_ 30 years. And this whole time, every single professional software developer has been telling every single non-software developer the exact same thing, over and over: this takes longer to do than you think. If, say, 80% of developers were knocking things out, problem free, in an hour or two and the other 20% were hanging back like a 50…

what surprises me is not that non-developers don't understand that simple changes are not that simple and will take longer than they think to implement.

it is that former devs who are now managers don't remember this when they are in a new role. maybe it is the pressure from their superiors to do things quickly or maybe they no longer have the developer mindset

Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#37
To me the main concern is that this shouldn't even be a code change: this stuff should be a matter of configuration. In a well-written system the dev time for it should be zero.

But in general, the whole letter feels wrong: either the complications of such a trivial change depend entirely on legacy code that isn't responsibility of the current maintainer, and therefore the client knows well how hard and expensive even simple changes are (and this should have been made clear when the project started); or the maintainer is asking the client to pay for developments (refactorings, tests, or a different, more general implementation of the feature) that weren't agreed beforehand.

Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#38
post #28
post #22

While some of that may be true, it feels ridiculous/inappropriate as a response. The customer doesn't want a disertation about programming/support practices. The customer wants something made cheaper. That can be satisfied to a large degree. You can just as well tell the customer: "OK, I'll do the obvious chnage, if something else breaks, we'll fix it later. It seems likely all will be fine. Ok?" Some customers will…

> Some customers will be ok with that. I'm not sure I would fully trust that. The client probably won't be happy if bugs from poorly tested code keep coming up. And it sounds like the client might question the dev teams work, if they are currently questioning the team's estimates.

They have to be ok with that before the fact. You just have to make sure they understand what it means.

Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#39
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a small subset of devs that will rush and get the work "done" in the underallocated time. The catch is in, of course, the Definition of Done. This is why we spend time aligning teams on exactly this. Sure I can fire off that one line change and tell you it's done. But, does it work? Is it right? Do you care? Typically this sub-par work is done by inexpensive outsourced development shops being managed by a cl…

Handyman Contractor mentality vs Civil Engineer mentality in a nutshell Unfortunately not everyone cares about resilience and certain performance thresholds when it comes to construction, especially when budgets become involved. Some customers will are happy to cheap out for a hack-job remodel in the hopes that they can flip their home and run off before the bagholder realizes they got a lemon.

"handyman vs. civil engineer." I'm going to use this the next four or five times and see if the analogy helps.

I mean both are valid depending on what you want. Are you asking me to whip up a script to answer a one-off question or a pipeline to answer that question for every customer every quarter?

Re: Dear Client, Here’s Why That Change Took So Long

#40

What gets me is that software has been a mainstay of modern business for _at least_ 30 years. And this whole time, every single professional software developer has been telling every single non-software developer the exact same thing, over and over: this takes longer to do than you think. If, say, 80% of developers were knocking things out, problem free, in an hour or two and the other 20% were hanging back like a 50…

On the flip side, I've seen far too many teams move at the speed of molasses, for reasons unrelated to the intrinsic complexity of the problem. Bureaucracy, analysis paralysis, no automated testing, accidental complexity, tech debt, poor retention of experienced developers, poor compensation resulting in sub-par hires, insufficient training and mentoring for new hires etc etc. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that every single development team is operating at their most ideal.
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