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Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

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Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#31

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

rgbrgb wrote: post #18
archgrove wrote: post #5

I totally agree with some of the points: iOS should really receive the same garbage collector that OS X has had for years, and the provisioning certificate nonsense is, well, nonsense. iOS really does need a side loading mechanism. That you need a Mac to develop on is, I suppose, a negative - you can get going with Android on almost anything. However, I can't say I've ever had any problem with Apple's documentation:…

Agreed. I had the exact opposite reaction when I started doing some Android dev after coming from iPhone. I find Xcode to be at least 80,000 times better than Eclipse (memory usage, UI, interface builder, speed, general bugginess). I also REALLY like Apple's docs and the ease of integrating C code (no NDK!) when you need to do something like real-time audio. My only really big complaint is the certificate signing pro…

I have a question. I asked this to a few mac users and haven't received a good answer.

How the hell do you get xcode (or other programs, but xcode is particularly bad) not to end up being a big piles of small windows you can't access effectively because they don't have a dock icon? The only way I found, was to long-click on the xcode dock icon which after a while splatters small versions of the windows everywhere, then scan these tiled windows until I find the right one and click on it. I have to do that atrociously long multi-step process every damn time I wan't to take a glance at another window! This, for example, makes the internal iOS documentation useless to me. At least I can use the web documentation to get the browser dock icon but when I don't have an internet connection I'm out of luck.

While I'm at it, is there any way, when using 'Spaces' to do a desktop change in one click? I'm mainly a Linux user and I'm used to having multiple desktops. OSX also has this functionality, and the 'Spaces' icon actually has four little square on it that represents the four desktops it's controlling. However when I click on one of the small squares, instead of going to the right desktop like it does in Gnome/Linux (and has been doing right since about 1995), it goes into an animation where the four desktop are displayed tiled full screen and I have to pick one. That is a two step process with an animation in between for something that should clearly be instantaneous. Is there an alternative to this. Both these things are driving me insane!

Like in the article, I bought a mac just to do iOS development and up to now my experience on osx felt like using a broken out of date gnome desktop with serious usability issues.

Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#32

Post by jamesg »

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #31
rgbrgb wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I had the exact opposite reaction when I started doing some Android dev after coming from iPhone. I find Xcode to be at least 80,000 times better than Eclipse (memory usage, UI, interface builder, speed, general bugginess). I also REALLY like Apple's docs and the ease of integrating C code (no NDK!) when you need to do something like real-time audio. My only really big complaint is the certificate signing pro…

I have a question. I asked this to a few mac users and haven't received a good answer. How the hell do you get xcode (or other programs, but xcode is particularly bad) not to end up being a big piles of small windows you can't access effectively because they don't have a dock icon? The only way I found, was to long-click on the xcode dock icon which after a while splatters small versions of the windows everywhere, th…

Don't know on the first one, but you can use ctrl + cursor keys to move between spaces. Fairly sure that's the default, but if not, it can be setup in preferences for Spaces.

Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#33

Post by pkaler »

mickdj wrote: post #19
pkaler wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the flaws in CoreLocation or the documentation? CLLocationManager is instantiated like any other NSObject. CLLocationManagerDelegate returns asynchronous results like any other protocol in Cocoa/CocoaTouch. CLLocation, CLHeading, CLRegion are about as close as you're going to get to get to C-style POD structs in Objective-C. The documentation is all here and the API is about straight forward as it is going…

I don't want to veer O/T, but that's not the hard stuff in CLLocation. There's a lot that could be discussed, but as one example: optimizing for battery conservation requires knowing which radios are currently powered up. iOS makes its own decision as to which of the 3 styles of location service to engage, based on the desiredAccuracy and distanceFilter values. However the WiFi/GPS radio have different costs for runt…

There's a lot that could be discussed...

There isn't a whole lot to be discussed. iOS minimizes battery usage based on how close cell towers are, type of cell tower, altitude, Wifi spots database, state of GPS almanac, hardware/driver combination, etc like a any good OS/kernel (including Android) should.

The App sets CLLocationAccuracy to kCLLocationAccuracyBest, kCLLocationAccuracyNearestTenMeters, kCLLocationAccuracyHundredMeters, kCLLocationAccuracyKilometer, or kCLLocationAccuracyThreeKilometers and that's it.

The OS will almost always be able to minimize battery usage because it has way more information than the App could or should ever have. The App will never be able to optimize this setting because there will always be new hardware with new tradeoffs.

Your claim is that Apple's documentation does not describe the implications of the laws of physics for an arbitrary location that the user may reside at and does not reveal implementation details of the kernel that change every hardware/software revision.

The API could not be much simpler or much better documented.

Do you really think that Android's documentation is better? http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/location/obtaining... http://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/pack...

Because the Criteria class on Android is essentially the same as CLLocationAccuracy. http://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/Crit...

I really would like to know if you think that Apple's documentation is poor or if you are just trolling because the facts of the situation don't support your argument.

Which part of the documentation is "quite flawed" like you originally claim?

Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#34

Post by metachor »

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #31
rgbrgb wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I had the exact opposite reaction when I started doing some Android dev after coming from iPhone. I find Xcode to be at least 80,000 times better than Eclipse (memory usage, UI, interface builder, speed, general bugginess). I also REALLY like Apple's docs and the ease of integrating C code (no NDK!) when you need to do something like real-time audio. My only really big complaint is the certificate signing pro…

I have a question. I asked this to a few mac users and haven't received a good answer. How the hell do you get xcode (or other programs, but xcode is particularly bad) not to end up being a big piles of small windows you can't access effectively because they don't have a dock icon? The only way I found, was to long-click on the xcode dock icon which after a while splatters small versions of the windows everywhere, th…

To use XCode in a single window, switch it to the All-in-One layout in the preferences:

http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2009/03/xcode-single-w...

Also, in any OS X application with multiple windows you can use Command-` (i.e. Command + backtick key) to switch between windows of the active application.

Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#35

Post by orangecat »

jawngee wrote: post #29

I'm stumped why memory management is so hard for developers, to the point I have to raise an eyebrow every time I read it. Are you seriously that lazy? The docs about it are fairly straight forward: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/... Instruments makes it exceedingly simple to track down leaks. While the iPhone 4 could probably handle a GC in most cases, the iPad less capable. XCode is a p…

And don't get me started on those lazy kids and their assemblers. I mean, how hard is it to remember a few dozen opcode hex values?

Less snarkily: Developer resources are not infinite. Time spent futzing with memory management in non-performance-critical areas is time not spent improving performance where it actually matters, adding features, or improving the user interface.

For example, Angry Birds on the Galaxy Tab versus Angry Birds on the iPad are no where near the same experiences. The Galaxy Tab is jerky and slow, while the iPad is smooth.

The Android code for Angry Birds is primarily in native code, so garbage collection is unlikely to be the cause of your observations. And it's perfectly smooth on my Nexus One.

Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#36

Post by mickdj »

pkaler wrote: post #33
mickdj wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to veer O/T, but that's not the hard stuff in CLLocation. There's a lot that could be discussed, but as one example: optimizing for battery conservation requires knowing which radios are currently powered up. iOS makes its own decision as to which of the 3 styles of location service to engage, based on the desiredAccuracy and distanceFilter values. However the WiFi/GPS radio have different costs for runt…

There's a lot that could be discussed... There isn't a whole lot to be discussed. iOS minimizes battery usage based on how close cell towers are, type of cell tower, altitude, Wifi spots database, state of GPS almanac, hardware/driver combination, etc like a any good OS/kernel (including Android) should. The App sets CLLocationAccuracy to kCLLocationAccuracyBest, kCLLocationAccuracyNearestTenMeters, kCLLocationAccura…

"The OS will almost always be able to minimize battery usage because it has way more information than the App could or should ever have."

This is only true for standalone apps which don't share location information between people.

The OS doesn't know that one person wants to turn on the GPS on another person's phone.

I'm actually pretty pro-Apple and anti-Android (James, OP is the Android developer and I develop exclusively on Obj-C).

Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#37

Post by raquo »

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #31
rgbrgb wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I had the exact opposite reaction when I started doing some Android dev after coming from iPhone. I find Xcode to be at least 80,000 times better than Eclipse (memory usage, UI, interface builder, speed, general bugginess). I also REALLY like Apple's docs and the ease of integrating C code (no NDK!) when you need to do something like real-time audio. My only really big complaint is the certificate signing pro…

I have a question. I asked this to a few mac users and haven't received a good answer. How the hell do you get xcode (or other programs, but xcode is particularly bad) not to end up being a big piles of small windows you can't access effectively because they don't have a dock icon? The only way I found, was to long-click on the xcode dock icon which after a while splatters small versions of the windows everywhere, th…

Well, there's Cmd + ~ hotkey for switching windows of active apps in 10.6, and it can be added using some small app in 10.5

Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#38

Post by jawngee »

orangecat wrote: post #35
jawngee wrote: post #29

I'm stumped why memory management is so hard for developers, to the point I have to raise an eyebrow every time I read it. Are you seriously that lazy? The docs about it are fairly straight forward: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/... Instruments makes it exceedingly simple to track down leaks. While the iPhone 4 could probably handle a GC in most cases, the iPad less capable. XCode is a p…

And don't get me started on those lazy kids and their assemblers. I mean, how hard is it to remember a few dozen opcode hex values? Less snarkily: Developer resources are not infinite. Time spent futzing with memory management in non-performance-critical areas is time not spent improving performance where it actually matters, adding features, or improving the user interface. For example, Angry Birds on the Galaxy Tab…

I wasn't talking about the Nexus One, I was talking about the iPad vs the Galaxy Tab. And I didn't say that GC was what was slowing down Angry Birds, I was talking about subjective relative performance between Android and iOS.

The point of my criticism is that memory management in objective-c doesn't take any extra time beyond overloading dealloc and writing a few more retains and releases for 90% of all cases. It's just plain lazy, imo. Your comparison to writing raw assembler is nonsense and ignorant.

Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#39

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

metachor wrote: post #34
BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a question. I asked this to a few mac users and haven't received a good answer. How the hell do you get xcode (or other programs, but xcode is particularly bad) not to end up being a big piles of small windows you can't access effectively because they don't have a dock icon? The only way I found, was to long-click on the xcode dock icon which after a while splatters small versions of the windows everywhere, th…

To use XCode in a single window, switch it to the All-in-One layout in the preferences: http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2009/03/xcode-single-w... Also, in any OS X application with multiple windows you can use Command-` (i.e. Command + backtick key) to switch between windows of the active application.

All-in-One is kinda nice. It seems it should be the default. It still doesn't make the documentation window of any use though. I guess it has a little less chance of being hidden under a pile of other windows now. Command+backtick doesn't seem to do anything on my mac.

Re: Android vs iOS: A Developer's Perspective

#40

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

jamesg wrote: post #32
BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a question. I asked this to a few mac users and haven't received a good answer. How the hell do you get xcode (or other programs, but xcode is particularly bad) not to end up being a big piles of small windows you can't access effectively because they don't have a dock icon? The only way I found, was to long-click on the xcode dock icon which after a while splatters small versions of the windows everywhere, th…

Don't know on the first one, but you can use ctrl + cursor keys to move between spaces. Fairly sure that's the default, but if not, it can be setup in preferences for Spaces.

It doesn't seem to be the default but I guess I can find out how to set it up. I still think you should get a mouse based one click interface though.
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