Live data from Hacker News

I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

huffpost.com

31–40 of 464 posts

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#31
post #3

This feels like the literary version of the "what in tarnation would you ever need this new-fangled multiplication for" critiques of common core math. > Holbrook wrote that asking students to guess an author's intent in writing a piece of literature is doomed to be a pointless exercise. It's pedagogy! Students aren't trying to divine the One True Meaning of the piece. They're trying to learn how to read a piece of li…

>They're trying to learn how to read a piece of literature, identify literary techniques, and think critically about it. If a student can produce a justifiable answer, they're winning.

Perfectly correct, only that's not what's happening here.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#32
It's not the only place in the world where the work (educating students) is jeopardised by the evaluation of that work (tests). Tests in schools are even worse, though, because they conflate 2 completely separate issues: the success of the efforts of the education system and the success of the efforts of the student.

On the other hand, I will say that standardised testing is good at one thing: predicting which students will do well at standardised tests in further schooling. This may sound useless, but if you consider that the education system is what it is, you can help students either get better at the system or choose a different path after their compulsory term is over (like going to a trade school, running a shop, etc, etc).

In my brief stint at teaching English, I always tried to separate the activities of learning English and passing tests in order to progress on to further education. If you just want to learn English, there is no need for evaluation. You don't need to fit it into X years of school. You don't have to hit some arbitrary school board imposed targets. You just have to learn English. IMHO a teacher should always be there to helps students learn (and especially help them learn how to learn by themselves).

However, the other role exists and is arguably more important in the students' school years. You need to help the students align themselves with the careers that they are eventually going to take. That this involves considerable hoop-jumping is very unfortunate, but it is what it is. Students shouldn't confuse being educated with having a high mark on a test.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#34
post #25

Perfect example of mistaking measuring for knowing. Everything that can be measured can be known, but not everything that can be known can be measured. Correct answer to the question about capitalization: "I don't know; neither do you; somebody could trivially ask the poet; regardless it's not really of primary importance; and arguably (postmodernism) the answer is up to me anyway."

>mistaking measuring for knowing

Precisely. Another bugbear is questions of the type 'On a scale of 1-10, how convinced are you that measuring is a form of knowing?' with response options 'Not convinced', 'Somewhat convinced', etc.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#35
post #25

Perfect example of mistaking measuring for knowing. Everything that can be measured can be known, but not everything that can be known can be measured. Correct answer to the question about capitalization: "I don't know; neither do you; somebody could trivially ask the poet; regardless it's not really of primary importance; and arguably (postmodernism) the answer is up to me anyway."

Or simply: "In the scheme of what I want to do with my life it doesn't matter."

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#36
>Texas' STAAR tests are administered in part by Pearson Assessments, a testing company that Holbrook called a "sadistic behemoth."

I have never heard a single good thing about Pearson. Having been assessed by them in Public schools, I think the consensus is well-earned.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#37
I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..."

Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea:

> “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that people say is shit. What goes beyond is what you see beyond when you know.”

― Ernest Hemingway

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#38
post #33

I mean, so? She writes poems. Why should that mean she is good at analyzing poems? Are game players good at writing games, and vice-versa? Are people who eat a lot good at cooking? Are runners great at designing shoes?

Poetry is a form of art. The artist has their own meaning behind their work. Art has its own meaning to the person viewing reading hearing it. If one person gets different meaning and feeling from art, to another person, who is right and who is wrong? Neither. You can use it to understand how someone interrupts the art but you can’t fail them because their interruption was different to yours.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#39
post #36

>Texas' STAAR tests are administered in part by Pearson Assessments, a testing company that Holbrook called a "sadistic behemoth." I have never heard a single good thing about Pearson. Having been assessed by them in Public schools, I think the consensus is well-earned.

My neighbor says they pay pretty well. So there’s that. At least if you’re at the VP level.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#40

I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..." Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea: > “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that…

I remember reading that that same quote while reading the book!
Post reply on HN