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Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

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Re: Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

#31
post #6

I always had great respect for aerospace and thought they'd put safety above all else but seeing all this, Boeing seems like a fucking travesty.

> thought they'd put safety above all else

The bottom line is always above all else. Or is it executive compensation? I always forget which is first.

Re: Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

#32
post #6

I always had great respect for aerospace and thought they'd put safety above all else but seeing all this, Boeing seems like a fucking travesty.

Boeing opened its South Carolina plant to avoid a unionized workforce, and that plant has been responsible for producing these horrific excuses they call airplanes. They had the benefit of a doubt before, but now it's clear that Boeing's leadership, like that of other public companies, values cheap labor over safety.

I'm pretty sure the 737 Max planes has been entirely assembled in Washington State, where the Boeing employees are unionized.

Re: Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing opened its South Carolina plant to avoid a unionized workforce, and that plant has been responsible for producing these horrific excuses they call airplanes. They had the benefit of a doubt before, but now it's clear that Boeing's leadership, like that of other public companies, values cheap labor over safety.

I'm not sure how unions have any relations to this. They exist as a mediator between management and workers for pay and rights; customer satisfaction or safety is completely outside their domain

Unions give employees the knowledge and leverage to push back against unrealistic demands, deadlines, and cost-cutting measures without retaliation. These kinds of rushed solutions causing more problems down the line are caused by a culture that rewards employees who put up with managers breathing down their neck.

Re: Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

#34
post #6

I always had great respect for aerospace and thought they'd put safety above all else but seeing all this, Boeing seems like a fucking travesty.

Boeing opened its South Carolina plant to avoid a unionized workforce, and that plant has been responsible for producing these horrific excuses they call airplanes. They had the benefit of a doubt before, but now it's clear that Boeing's leadership, like that of other public companies, values cheap labor over safety.

Things would change if there was accountability transferred all the way along the chain of command, and then the salaries C-level executives would certainly be much more warranted; the not just fines but hard jail time argument.

Re: Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

#35
For anyone interested in an insider's perspective on recent quality issues at Boeing, check out this short New York Times podcast wherein they interview whistleblowers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/23/podcasts/the-daily/boeing...

The excerpt that stands out to me the most related the story of one of the whistleblowers finding pieces of debris within a 787 aircraft (between the passenger compartment and the skin), telling his supervisor, and then being told not to worry about it. In another case, a whistleblower in charge of defective inventory found that some of the items marked defective were going missing and ending up installed on aircraft to meet production goals rather than wait for a proper replacement, the red paint marking them defective having been clumsily rubbed off.

Re: Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how unions have any relations to this. They exist as a mediator between management and workers for pay and rights; customer satisfaction or safety is completely outside their domain

Unions give employees the knowledge and leverage to push back against unrealistic demands, deadlines, and cost-cutting measures without retaliation. These kinds of rushed solutions causing more problems down the line are caused by a culture that rewards employees who put up with managers breathing down their neck.

Irrelevant in this case, though. While concerns have indeed been raised about SC production quality, this particular story involves an engineering failure, not a production issue. Boeing engineers are unionized through SPEEA. They can bring the company to its knees at contract negotiation time, and they have done so in the past.

Re: Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

#38

For anyone interested in an insider's perspective on recent quality issues at Boeing, check out this short New York Times podcast wherein they interview whistleblowers. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/23/podcasts/the-daily/boeing... The excerpt that stands out to me the most related the story of one of the whistleblowers finding pieces of debris within a 787 aircraft (between the passenger compartment and the skin),…

These stories are from an acquired factory - it seems like they acquired a lot of problems when they bought Embraer.

Re: Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

#39

"If it's boeing I ain't going"

I wonder how many serious problems Airbus have that we simply don't know about because they haven't been caught.

Well, they designed their airframe to handle the larger engines properly, rather than patching it with software. So I'm going to wager that the answer is "a lot less".

Re: Boeing waited until after Lion Air crash to tell Southwest safety alert was off

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you don't think it's going to be a US congresscritter. "Why do you hate American jobs!"

You can turn that logic around real quick since Boeing also makes planes and other equipment for the US military: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Defense,_Space_%26_Secu... You don't hate the troops after all, do you?

"Why does the honorable senator from wherever want our troops to fly in unsafe planes? Shouldn't the honorable senator, who claims to support the troops, want our troops to have the most reliable and effective planes available?"
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