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Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

theguardian.com

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Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#31

Post by dgellow »

cpursley wrote: post #22
saiya-jin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We in Europe have a very personal stake in this. The chance of China ever invading us is minuscule bordering to none, the same can't be said for Russia. They've already done it in the past numerous times - I know damn well since I come from former Czechoslovakia. I have no kind word for a russians due to this, my parents and their whole generation have pretty horrible stories to tell and effects of their meddling and…

The only thing Russia is interested in invading in Europe are the beaches and Gucci stores. Even the French have a larger and more modern military than the Russian Federation...

Russia literally invaded Ukraine 5 years ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_...

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#32

Post by dTal »

skilled wrote: post #21
basetop wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd stopped consuming so much cable news, it can rot your brain. And why did you edit out "China's human rights may be even worse" from your comment? That's certainly something that is up for debate. "English-speaking people"? What's that? Russia does bad things. China does bad things. The EU does bad things. We do bad things. What's strange is the sudden hysteria and relentless propaganda directed towards china and…

Well, actually, it's the government with your money that does bad things. You are subscribed to the government and won't do anything about it. So, it's actually mostly your fault (society). Until people decide this is not the way of life, this circle will continue until extinction.

I think it's a fine thing to take responsibility for your government. But it's a bit much to blame people for the government doing bad things with "their" money. It's not their picture on the money. There's no unsubscribe option on a tax return form. You can't opt out, and even in our Western democracies representation is... poor, to say the least. The distinction between a government and its population is not meaningless.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#33

Post by ptr »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #13
lm28469 wrote: post #9

Have you seen the harness ? [0] You might be able to strap a gps or a camera on it, but a weapon ?! What's up with all the articles "russia/china bad" popping up recently ? > In 1980s Soviet Russia, a programme saw dolphins recruited for military training Yeah, just like any nation with enough defence budget. Dolphins/sea lions [1], dogs, rats [2], &c. are used all the time. [0] https://www.sciencealert.com/mysteriou…

Given the region, I first thought of the Swedish submarine scare and cold war panic in the 80s. Sweden, a non NATO member which didnt want to join NATO, had repeated incursions by submarines into their waters which were attributed to the soviets. It seems that wasnt the case for most subs. Instead the likely culprits were often NATO vessels. Ola Tunander worte a Book about the incidents, called "The Secret War Agains…

"It seems that wasnt the case for most subs", according to whom? The book you're referencing? Read the abstract: "After a Soviet Whiskey submarine was stranded in 1981 in the Swedish archipelago ... Today, all evidence for Soviet intrusions appears to have been manipulated, or simply invented. " so NATO would steal a Soviet sub, fill it with Soviet navy guys, and bash it against the Swedish shoreline? Seems reasonable.

I'm going to use Occam's razor here; the SU had extensive plans to invade Sweden (as it had against the rest of [central] Europe). I'm pretty sure they practiced those plans.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#34

Post by skilled »

dTal wrote: post #32
skilled wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, actually, it's the government with your money that does bad things. You are subscribed to the government and won't do anything about it. So, it's actually mostly your fault (society). Until people decide this is not the way of life, this circle will continue until extinction.

I think it's a fine thing to take responsibility for your government. But it's a bit much to blame people for the government doing bad things with "their" money. It's not their picture on the money. There's no unsubscribe option on a tax return form. You can't opt out, and even in our Western democracies representation is... poor, to say the least. The distinction between a government and its population is not meanin…

And it never crosses your mind that it's a little ironic how a human is born without freedom (tax) from day one.

Don't you think that's suspiciously convinient for the government?

There are clearly a lot of flaws in this illusionary order of systematic living.

You underestimate the possibilities outside of being chained to repetition. Maybe you think that countries make sense too on a global scale?

Clearly we have very different views on the human potential.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#36

Post by dTal »

skilled wrote: post #34
dTal wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a fine thing to take responsibility for your government. But it's a bit much to blame people for the government doing bad things with "their" money. It's not their picture on the money. There's no unsubscribe option on a tax return form. You can't opt out, and even in our Western democracies representation is... poor, to say the least. The distinction between a government and its population is not meanin…

And it never crosses your mind that it's a little ironic how a human is born without freedom (tax) from day one. Don't you think that's suspiciously convinient for the government? There are clearly a lot of flaws in this illusionary order of systematic living. You underestimate the possibilities outside of being chained to repetition. Maybe you think that countries make sense too on a global scale? Clearly we have ve…

I really have no idea what any of that has to do with anything said by either myself or user basestop, who you originally replied to. Or how you came to any conclusions about my mental state.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#37

Post by PhasmaFelis »

lm28469 wrote: post #12
_iyig wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Russia recently invaded a European country, assassinated several people in the U.K., got caught using spies to infiltrate U.S. political parties, hacked the emails of a U.S. presidential candidate while meeting secretly with her opponent (who may or may not be massively in the Russian government’s debt), and resumed air attack drills on NATO countries. So, a lot of English-speaking people see Russia as the “bad…

And the US are the good guys, never played a role in foreign countries political systems, never spied on anyone, never started wars, killed civilians in countless countries, founded terrorists organisations, &c. ? It's very easy to tell the bad guys to stop being bad, while doing the same things and pretending it's right. You don't even have to go back to MKULTRA or vietnam, it's happening right now. But be careful,…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#38

Post by stplsd »

basetop wrote: post #11
_iyig wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Russia recently invaded a European country, assassinated several people in the U.K., got caught using spies to infiltrate U.S. political parties, hacked the emails of a U.S. presidential candidate while meeting secretly with her opponent (who may or may not be massively in the Russian government’s debt), and resumed air attack drills on NATO countries. So, a lot of English-speaking people see Russia as the “bad…

I'd stopped consuming so much cable news, it can rot your brain. And why did you edit out "China's human rights may be even worse" from your comment? That's certainly something that is up for debate. "English-speaking people"? What's that? Russia does bad things. China does bad things. The EU does bad things. We do bad things. What's strange is the sudden hysteria and relentless propaganda directed towards china and…

What a nice example of subtle aboutism.

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#39

Post by cf141q5325 »

ptr wrote: post #33
cf141q5325 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the region, I first thought of the Swedish submarine scare and cold war panic in the 80s. Sweden, a non NATO member which didnt want to join NATO, had repeated incursions by submarines into their waters which were attributed to the soviets. It seems that wasnt the case for most subs. Instead the likely culprits were often NATO vessels. Ola Tunander worte a Book about the incidents, called "The Secret War Agains…

"It seems that wasnt the case for most subs", according to whom? The book you're referencing? Read the abstract: "After a Soviet Whiskey submarine was stranded in 1981 in the Swedish archipelago ... Today, all evidence for Soviet intrusions appears to have been manipulated, or simply invented. " so NATO would steal a Soviet sub, fill it with Soviet navy guys, and bash it against the Swedish shoreline? Seems reasonabl…

The Swedish government back then attributed only two of these submarines to the soviets, one of them being the stranded Whiskey sub. The second case was also later disputed.

I think you understand that the author isnt talking about the Whiskey sub being invented or staged.

To "most", the sentences after your quote is the interesting one.

> Classified documents point to covert US and UK activity. Former US secretary of defense Caspar Weinberger stated that Western submarines operated ‘regularly’ and ‘frequently’ in Swedish waters in order to ‘test’ the Swedish coastal defences, and former British navy minister Sir Keith Speed confirms the existence of such operations. Royal Navy submarine captains admit having carried out top-secret operations in Swedish waters, and that a member of Cabinet signed approval for every single operation

Here is a different source if you prefer that.

https://www.apnews.com/f0a9cfd83c430978e6545b902f1160d2

Re: Whale with harness could be Russian weapon, say Norwegian experts

#40

Post by Deutschland »

StavrosK wrote: post #7
grandinj wrote: post #6

Or it could be a loose piece of harness floating around the sea that the whale got trapped in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_(medicine)

Then it got trapped in it pretty damn neatly, with one part behind the fun and one on its "neck". It's like my dog getting randomly tangled in its chest harness with the legs in the right position.

How many whale-sized harnesses are just floating around in the sea anyway?
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