Well, armed forces and defence/offense complex predates everything else in his examples.
And actually demand army creates in sosiety may be very very useful since it drives innovation.
Meditations on Moloch (2014)
31–40 of 57 posts
Re: Meditations on Moloch (2014)
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seconded. This essay made me re-think what our problems are and what kind of dynamics those problems exhibit.
I feel the same way about the Inadequate Equilibria book https://equilibriabook.com/toc/ (free-to-read). In many ways, it's a different look into the very same problems, with more depth and less egregore/meme engineering.
Yep, Inadequate Equilibria is also a gem. I'd say that compared to MoM, it is more down-to-earth and about how to navigate the problem field and how to find the cases where one can make a difference.
I also feel that as an engineer it is really easy to forget to see the context of a problem. Often technical solutions can be really shitty, but still work because of the context. And installing better solutions won't work if the context does not allow it (or makes it too pricey). Often the shittiest solutions are cemented in use by difficult webs of dependencies that are hard to change. Examples of this kind of systems would be social media platforms (cemented by network effects) and payment systems (technically PITA, but hard to compete with).
Re: Meditations on Moloch (2014)
#33A very good essay, also a deeply depressing one if you do not get to the end and consider his solution viable.
If you found that depressing, steer clear of Scott's Who By Very Slow Decay [1]. It's an extraordinarily powerful piece though, and an interesting stylistic counterpoint to Moloch 's oneiric ramblings. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay...
I agree, insightful and powerful, thanks for the link. The medical system in general is a perfect case study of the contradictions and cruelties that have emerged from our present technological and institutional status quo. Maybe a barometer too, telling of how well or how badly a given society is dealing with the current moment.
Re: Meditations on Moloch (2014)
#34A very good essay, also a deeply depressing one if you do not get to the end and consider his solution viable.
If you found that depressing, steer clear of Scott's Who By Very Slow Decay [1]. It's an extraordinarily powerful piece though, and an interesting stylistic counterpoint to Moloch 's oneiric ramblings. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay...
Is this American culture where people mostly die in hospitals, with “palliative care” prolonging their suffering? In Europe and elsewhere, people mostly die at home. It is unpleasant and traumatic, like everything there is about death, but still, I believe, infinitely better than what he describes in this post.
Re: Meditations on Moloch (2014)
#35I always get a justification of the elitist exploitation vibe from these kinds of writings. "We can't do anything about it, it's just prisoner's dilemmas all the way down. Move along, nothing to see here".
It seems to me that the ultimate point of this essay is the exact opposite of that.
Re: Meditations on Moloch (2014)
#36This, and Inadequate Equilibria have been a useful way of viewing societies problems. They've also raised red flags on things that I think are definitely Good.
Notably, both of these talk about problems in science, and how it's "easy" to solve...if you have a Science God to issue the Science Decree.
And then we start overthrowing the evil Science God Elsevier in favor of a more decentralized science publishing. This is a huge victory for good over evil, but it takes the form of replacing the evil Science God with Moloch.
Centralization enables despotism. Decentralization enables Moloch. Coordination problems are a real issue we need to address; preferably without abusive consolidation of power.
Re: Meditations on Moloch (2014)
#37This was a mostly entertaining read, if a bit all over the place. I do have one point to offer -- I noticed this article quotes liberally from Bostrom, Nick, but misses another thinker who has relevant ideas about avoiding what this author refers to as "multipolar traps" -- Ostrom, Elinor. I recommend those who are interested in resources for the fight against Moloch to look into her book Governing the Commons, as sh…
Thanks for the pointer, I am unfamiliar with the work of Ostrom. Based on the nobel lecture of her's it seems pretty damn interesting.
Re: Meditations on Moloch (2014)
#38Can I get a quick summary? By the way, does anyone know and use automatic summary plug-ins?
If you're interested at all, it's well worth finding some time to read the thing in its entirety. Yes, it's a long build-up that could be compressed, but the punchline wouldn't be nearly as effective without it.
Re: Meditations on Moloch (2014)
#39This is one of the best essays I've ever read. I was surprised to find it was never discussed on HN (plenty of submissions, no traction). So go read it HNers.
It resonated with me deeply too, which I guess is what often happens when you are at the just the right time in some intellectual development -- you've read the right things, and you already think or believe (is there a difference?) some or even most of the things that the essay will be telling you. Then the essay comes, builds some new connections, and drives home one or more new points that you were building up to…
Yes. There were also several link-outs that are now on my to-read list, which is, to me, always a positive outcome. I think this essay itself is probably worth revisiting in a couple of months, too.
Re: Meditations on Moloch (2014)
#40I always get a justification of the elitist exploitation vibe from these kinds of writings. "We can't do anything about it, it's just prisoner's dilemmas all the way down. Move along, nothing to see here".
It seems to me that the ultimate point of this essay is the exact opposite of that.
Uhm, no: The piece claims we are subjected to inhumane incentives set by competition for resources (rather than by corrupted individuals and groups who have become too cozy in their armchairs). It claims that only centralized control by an “unincentivized incentivizer” can prevent Molochian systems from sliding into degenerate chaos, without really specifying what that is.
I think the idea that a centralized solution will bring us Eden is not only naive, but it is also exactly playing into the hands of the centralized elite because it does not question them. Distracting from the blame of the elites is a convenient sleight of hand. The notion that efforts must be strengthened to establish a centralized control deprives us of means of getting rid of corruption by threats of forced replacement.