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The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

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Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#31
post #29
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you I find the same to be true of successful companies. When you ask a successful founder why (s)he succeeded you'l most often get an answer aided by hindsight. It appears to me that nobody truly knows what makes or breaks a company. There are some prerequistes (hard work, focus on customers, etc.) that you have to have, but these aren't enough. My guess is that it's like the weather and financial…

Not exactly. I can't find the citation just this second, but there was an article floating about showing that successful founders tend to be much more successful on subsequent projects than the baseline. I don't think it's chaos or luck. I've argued it before, but there are traits that make successful founders successful. The one that always stands out to me is an absolute laser focus on analytics. These founders are…

You make an excellent point, and to some degree I agree with you. Particularly it's obvious that there are some traits that are needed, or at least up your chances significantly. You point out focus as a vital ingredient.

But there's a flaw to the argument. You can spend all of your time measuring success factors and acting on the data. But there are limits both to how much you data you can make sense of, how much effort you can allow yourself to spend gathering that data, and how you interpret that data.

finding a cofounder, for example, is a critical component of success, but how will you pick a good cofounder based on data? Can you even do that? Notwithstanding that the hardest part about finding a cofounder is actually locating potential candidates to pick from.

In chaos theory you can actually predict the weather if you have data that's exact enough. But you don't. There's just noway you can measure everything exact enough. I think the same applies here.

Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#32

Did Storytlr even bother asking people to pay for the service? Seems kind of strange that with 10,000 users you can't at least cover $500 in hosting. At $5 a month, that's only .1% signup required.

I've seen the if only we get (tiny percentage) of (huge number) to pay (seemingly small amount), we'll be rich! arguement framed about a thousand different ways. I actually cautioned an entrepreneur I was talking to last night about this. Sales start from 0, and they continue from there. Until you have sold it a few times, who knows if .1% is incredibly easy or impossible. Sometimes any number >0 just isn't going to…

I didn't say rich, I said pay the $500 hosting fees.

The fact is that you guaranteeing sales are $0 if you never ask for money.

Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#33
post #15

Did Storytlr even bother asking people to pay for the service? Seems kind of strange that with 10,000 users you can't at least cover $500 in hosting. At $5 a month, that's only .1% signup required.

“He forgot there was a number lower than one percent.” http://sivers.org/1pct

Well, the number I used was .1%, and that number is surely always 0 if you don't even ask.

They didn't even ask anyone to pay.

Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#34
post #10
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the rate of change in OS and GUI environments, support libraries, and other APIs, most desktop apps don't work very well for long these days either. Of course unlike SaS you can always continue to use an old version indefinitely in a VM if it really matters. But I find the longevity of the vendor is still critical for supporting new environments and API requirements, and in practice I don't end up discounting t…

I should say here that I too have the 'old version' problem: The software to send samples to my Akai hardware sampler only runs on Windows 98. I have a Windows 98 PC just for this!

>The software to send samples to my Akai hardware sampler only runs on Windows 98. I have a Windows 98 PC just for this!

Doesn't it run under emulation, like virtualbox, or even in WINE98 or such?

Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#35
post #23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a terrible metaphor. The vitamin business is hugely successful! I did the research once and vitamins and supplements actually outsell pain relievers. [ Edit: supporting research I did, which I've now cited twice in comments on Hacker News. I should probably write a blog post. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=499929 ]

I think the point wasn't so much in how successful both industries are, then he could've taken any two industries. The point was that one is very much needed, and the other is nice to have. It's hard to get people to pay for 'nice to have'.

Huh? The guy you responded to shows exactly the opposite, to the tune of vitamins being a larger industry.

Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#36
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a terrible metaphor. The vitamin business is hugely successful! I did the research once and vitamins and supplements actually outsell pain relievers. [ Edit: supporting research I did, which I've now cited twice in comments on Hacker News. I should probably write a blog post. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=499929 ]

In terms of patentability and profits too?

given -R&D, seems logical that it may be the case.

Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#37
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised at how few people would pay $5 a month...

That's the truth. I think it's better to replace any arbitrary small monetary value with 'Will Actually Open Wallet'. Once you've got the perceived value of someone willing to open their wallet then other things can start to fall into place.

Yep, indeed. We just need to train users to pay for good software. I used to be in the "I don't pay for software, ever" camp, but then I realised people are worth my support and now buy things regularly (especially Android apps, even if the pro version does nothing more than the free version, e.g. Twidroid).

Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#38
post #10
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the rate of change in OS and GUI environments, support libraries, and other APIs, most desktop apps don't work very well for long these days either. Of course unlike SaS you can always continue to use an old version indefinitely in a VM if it really matters. But I find the longevity of the vendor is still critical for supporting new environments and API requirements, and in practice I don't end up discounting t…

I should say here that I too have the 'old version' problem: The software to send samples to my Akai hardware sampler only runs on Windows 98. I have a Windows 98 PC just for this!

It also runs on a Mac II vx, with System 7 and 32mb of RAM.

Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key point is "as long as it's open source", unfortunately most hosted services are not open sourced. If they were, we wouldn't need any special platform.

Yes but I think it's still a significant issue for open sourced web applications -- there's still room for improvement. It's usually a lot of extra work to make deployment on new systems completely automated, so developers don't bother. For my last Django project, I have a Fabric script that will deploy an update to the server with one command -- that was worthwhile overhead to invest time into, since it will continu…

It's usually a lot of extra work to make deployment on new systems completely automated, so developers don't bother.

Deprec + Capistrano makes this very close to a reality for Rails. It has some niggles -- like installing virtually everything from tarballs when I would strongly prefer it apt-get everything so that I could get updates and so paths and configuration files jelled well with what Ubuntu expects -- but it has been, and continues, to be a lifesaver for me in getting new projects up to speed.

You can also do one step deploys and automate a lot of cruftiness. (I can do upwards of forty deploys to my staging server in a day when in development mode on Twilio integration -- which is hard to test without actually having an accessible HTTP server and making phones actually ring -- so I have a script which commits my changes, tags a new staging release, and pushes it to the staging server in one command.)

Re: The creators of no-longer-with-us products explain what went wrong

#40
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“He forgot there was a number lower than one percent.” http://sivers.org/1pct

Well, the number I used was .1%, and that number is surely always 0 if you don't even ask. They didn't even ask anyone to pay.

Did you read Swivel's story? They had many many more users, they did ask them to pay and convinced less than 10. That's a lot less than 0.1%.
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