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Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

theguardian.com

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Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#31

Post by BLKNSLVR »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #9
mc32 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn’t that guy Correa’s (prev prez) Vice President as well as anointed successor? Did they have a falling out of some sort?

It seems so : "(Moreno) He was nominated as the candidate for Correa's PAIS Alliance, a center-left, democratic socialist[1] political party, in the 2017 presidential election and won a narrow victory in Ecuador's second round of voting on 2 April 2017.[2] However, after his election Moreno radically shifted his political stance, breaking with Correa's legacy and making radical changes to both internal and foreign po…

I haven't looked further into the nature of what you've described, but if that's all factual then that's a pretty damning set of actions.

Contrasting the first paragraph of the "IMF $4.2b loan" article:

The International Monetary Fund on Monday approved a $4.2-billion, three-year loan for Ecuador, part of a broader aid package to help support the government's economic reform program.

With this from wikipedia:

Moreno reversed several key pieces of legislation, passed by the Correa administration, that targeted wealthy individuals and banks

absolutely screams US influence conspiracy.

People don't change their politics that extremely unless it's worth their while.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#32

Post by roenxi »

gotocake wrote: post #21
cletus wrote: post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. I’ve seen footage of where he was in the embassy, it’s a lot better than prison. He also didn’t have to be counted five times a day, no one was trying to rape him or stab him, he woke up and went to sleep when he wanted, ate an array of foods, and until the end had access to people who wanted to visit in person. No guards abused him, a…

> no one was trying to rape him or stab him ... no guards abused him

Raping, stabbing and abusing people is still illegal in prison, you know. It isn't supposed to be part of the process. Assange isn't a violent offender either, so it'd be a little unfortunate if he was imprisoned with people who are.

Nobody is saying that the time he spent in the embassy should or could count towards his eventual prison sentences, but the 7 years he has spent there looks a lot like a self-imposed prison sentence.

> He also didn’t have to be counted five times a day, ... he woke up and went to sleep when he wanted, ate an array of foods

Those are clearly luxuries vs being imprisoned, but if that is the margin between being imprisoned or not the distinction is really irrelevant.

> Plus, he made a choice to enter the embassy and stay there.

So instead of accepting a state-controlled imprisonment he chose a voluntary period of conditions quite similar to being imprisoned. That is compelling evidence that he was serious about fearing extradition to the US to face whatever horrors they have in store for him.

I mean, objectively, if he believed he was just going to face rape charges in Sweden none of his choices make much sense. I doubt he was going to face more than 7 years for an offense that caused no injuries and that the victims didn't think was outrageously terrible at the time it happened. If he ever claimed his accusers weren't being truthful, the only compelling evidence is that there are two of them.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#33

Post by belorn »

cletus wrote: post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

> The one (?) remaining charge in Sweden will quickly fall apart no doubt.

There is a lot politics to decide this depending on american, UK and Swedish diplomacy. Everything which should not exist in a legal system.

> Aiding in defeating security measures to obtain it is quite another story.

Conspiring to assist in defeating a security measure. There are plenty of precedent of cases where a person has been charged with attempting to break a password, for both in UK and US, and the expected punishment for a person with no priors is a fine.

> Assange lost all credibility as a journalist over the Wikileaks handling of the 2016 election and related hackings (eg the DCC emails).

People can change when they receive death threats, talk about drone strikes by people in power, death penalty and secretly being throw into Guantanamo.

> Playing an active part in illegally obtaining emails and other materials

The current accusation of offering to help to break a password does not cover that. Getting leaked email sent to them is no different then getting leaked the audio log of someone being recorded without their knowledge.

> Even Snowden filtered his classified material through reputable media outlets.

"reputable media outlets" do not carry the same moral meaning as they once did. The Guardian journalist Claas Relotius is a prime example of reputable media doing less than reputable behavior, and the majority of news papers in the US is own by a handful individuals which endorsement has significant effect on the polls. A lot of media research acknowledge and sorts news paper by political bias. For source see https://cyber.harvard.edu/publications/2017/08/mediacloud

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#34

Post by ShorsHammer »

cletus wrote: post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

> Aiding in defeating security measures to obtain it is quite another story.

How would this hold up if Manning asked for help on StackOverflow instead? It was literally just crunching a password hash and never succeeded.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#35

Post by ShorsHammer »

Waterluvian wrote: post #13
caprese wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

odd to add Snowden to that Assange was in a building, Snowden is in the largest country on the planet

I get a sense that some think Snowden is hiding somewhere in Russia, under some form of house arrest. My understanding is that he's pretty much free to move about the country.

He's tweeted as much. People do ask him about it and the response has always been he basically has no contact with the government anymore and lives a boring mundane life in a city somewhere. Make of that what you will.

As long as he doesn't speak ill of his hosts he'll probably be fairly safe for a while.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#36

Post by onlydeadheroes »

cletus wrote: post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

> You'll have a hard time arguing that Assange (and Wikileaks by extension) wasn't picking a side here

He picked the side of truth. That is what it is all about. If Hillary hadn't been crooked, she would have had no problem with Assange.

But damm the truth, it was her turn!

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#37

Post by insickness »

cletus wrote: post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

> Assange lost all credibility as a journalist over the Wikileaks handling of the 2016 election

Unlike every other journalistic outlet in the world, not a single thing Wikileaks has put out has ever been proven false. He did not lose credibility. He lost favorability. Just because you don't like the information released does not affect its credibility.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#38

Post by onlydeadheroes »

ColanR wrote: post #23
educationdata wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Mainstream journalists never pick a side or intend to influence the outcome of the election. At least not pick the wrong side.

Of course they don't. [1] And no one ever tries to hide the fact such things happened, either. [2] [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/07/do... [2] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/clinton-received-debate-qu...

Please take your snopes trash elsewhere.

"If an organization like Snopes feels it is ok to hire partisan employees who have run for public office on behalf of a particular political party and employ them as fact checkers where they have a high likelihood of being asked to weigh in on material aligned with or contrary to their views, how can they reasonably be expected to act as neutral arbitrators of the truth?"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-dai...

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#39

Post by ColanR »

onlydeadheroes wrote: post #38
ColanR wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they don't. [1] And no one ever tries to hide the fact such things happened, either. [2] [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/07/do... [2] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/clinton-received-debate-qu...

Please take your snopes trash elsewhere. "If an organization like Snopes feels it is ok to hire partisan employees who have run for public office on behalf of a particular political party and employ them as fact checkers where they have a high likelihood of being asked to weigh in on material aligned with or contrary to their views, how can they reasonably be expected to act as neutral arbitrators of the truth?" http…

I think you misread me...I was trying to make my sarcasm obvious. Did you notice that the snopes article was directly contradicted by the washington post article?

I'm going to hold onto that link you sent. I've been wanting some good data on why snopes is unreliable. I've seen people rely on it far too readily.

Re: Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno

#40

Post by LiquidSky »

cletus wrote: post #14

So the big winner here really is the US. They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison. What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only the beginnin…

>They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison.

He was "holed up" by choice. He was free to leave any time. Of course that would have been arrested and sent to Sweden for prosecution, but choosing to run and hide from an arrest warrant isn't the same as prison.

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