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Zircon Fair Scheduler

fuchsia.googlesource.com

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Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#31

Post by loudmax »

impostir wrote: post #26

There are many references to multiple cpu systems throughout the document. Maybe I missed something, but I didn't know Fuschia was aimed at systems like that. I am no expert, but aren't the vast majority of multiple cpu systems servers or high-rnd workstations? If google can supply their own server os, Linux could lose a lot of support and funding

I'm no expert, but when they talk about multiple CPUs I understood them to mean multiple cores, not necessarily multiple CPUs on different motherboard sockets. Even midrange phones today typically have CPUs with multiple cores.

Google may have some intention of running Fuschia on servers, but even if you're developing a kernel for pocket mobile devices, you're still going to want to handle multiple cores.

Whether this signals Google's intentions to stop supporting Linux, who knows, but there are still a lot of other organizations invested in supporting Linux on servers.

Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#32

Post by linuxftw »

impostir wrote: post #26

There are many references to multiple cpu systems throughout the document. Maybe I missed something, but I didn't know Fuschia was aimed at systems like that. I am no expert, but aren't the vast majority of multiple cpu systems servers or high-rnd workstations? If google can supply their own server os, Linux could lose a lot of support and funding

Hopefully the industry learned it's lesson with Google and it's handling of the Android Open Source Project [1].

I don't think manufacturers of devices can bet their futures on Google.

1: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on...

Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#33

Post by wolf550e »

impostir wrote: post #26

There are many references to multiple cpu systems throughout the document. Maybe I missed something, but I didn't know Fuschia was aimed at systems like that. I am no expert, but aren't the vast majority of multiple cpu systems servers or high-rnd workstations? If google can supply their own server os, Linux could lose a lot of support and funding

"cpu" is "core". Almost all phone CPUs are multi-core. The low end of phone (and Raspberry Pi 2 V1.2 and newer) CPUs is quad core ARM Cortex A53, which is a small slow in-order design, similar to the original Intel Pentium from 1995. Older low end phones used the 32bit quad core ARM Cortex-A7. single core ARM11 phones are extinct.

They don't mean multi-socket systems, and I don't see mention of NUMA, which is the interesting case for servers where RAM is connected to some memory controller in a socket and to reach it from a CPU in a different socket you need to do extra hops, so some memory addresses are more distance than others and schedulers should take that into account to achieve good performance.

Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#34

Post by ubercore »

impostir wrote: post #26

There are many references to multiple cpu systems throughout the document. Maybe I missed something, but I didn't know Fuschia was aimed at systems like that. I am no expert, but aren't the vast majority of multiple cpu systems servers or high-rnd workstations? If google can supply their own server os, Linux could lose a lot of support and funding

Most (all?) phone SoCs these days are multi-core. My pixel 2 has 8 cores (4 big, 4 little) for example.

Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#35

Post by ubercore »

shereadsthenews wrote: post #27
terryschiavo22 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Google intends for this new OS to replace Android. They'll need to convince the public that this new OS is somehow better than Android, which everyone has come to know and love. It seems that they believe the best way to do that is a grassroots approach beginning with tech discussion hubs like HN and Reddit. Of course, they could have just meme'd hard about the fact that they're moving away from evil Oracle tec…

> Android, which everyone has come to know and love. Haha, honestly now. If my Android didn't cost $700 I would long since have smashed it to bits. It's scheduler is totally garbage, to the point where Google's own media apps like YouTube and Music drop samples while the screen is redrawing. Who "loves" Android? To me it is the Win98 of mobile operating systems.

That's a turn of phrase to indicate that not everyone loves, but it _is_ well known and probably the biggest consumer OS on the planet in terms of volume.

Also though, I do love it. Different strokes and all

Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#36

Post by pjmlp »

endorphone wrote: post #25
wolfgke wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a difference whether the fault for this lies at the Google engineers or the kernel maintainers.

Google has never been required to commit upstream, but they've chosen to do so because of the ease of integrating changes downstream. They could have forked off and bashed the code into whatever form they wanted to. Breaking anything and everything. But they didn't. They kept keeping it in sync. They probably had a reason for doing that.

Google has chosen to cherry pick commits to upstream, there is still plenty of stuff on AOSP, and much more on internal Googleplex repos.

Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#37

Post by linuxftw »

shereadsthenews wrote: post #27
terryschiavo22 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Google intends for this new OS to replace Android. They'll need to convince the public that this new OS is somehow better than Android, which everyone has come to know and love. It seems that they believe the best way to do that is a grassroots approach beginning with tech discussion hubs like HN and Reddit. Of course, they could have just meme'd hard about the fact that they're moving away from evil Oracle tec…

> Android, which everyone has come to know and love. Haha, honestly now. If my Android didn't cost $700 I would long since have smashed it to bits. It's scheduler is totally garbage, to the point where Google's own media apps like YouTube and Music drop samples while the screen is redrawing. Who "loves" Android? To me it is the Win98 of mobile operating systems.

Android has been pretty solid for me. I'm on my second Android device, this one cost me like $150 or so.

I've never had a higher-end phone, so I'm not missing anything with the mid-range. Web works great, as do most apps.

Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#38

Post by pjmlp »

monocasa wrote: post #30
pjmlp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After Project Treble that only applies to the legacy HAL code.

Even fully after Treble, there are absolutely still kernel drivers.

Sure there are, they are known as "legacy HALs" on Project Treble documentation.

Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#39

Post by endorphone »

monocasa wrote: post #30
pjmlp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After Project Treble that only applies to the legacy HAL code.

Even fully after Treble, there are absolutely still kernel drivers.

Qualcomm has no obligation to GPL their kernel drivers. Nor does nvidia, or any other KLM maker. This has never demanded that kernel drivers be open sourced. That's why it's impossible to make a runnable AOSP image for many devices.

Vendors still make generally minor changes to the kernel, but these are not unique or special or some competitive edge. They've just nuisance necessities.

Re: Zircon Fair Scheduler

#40

Post by bepvte »

coreytabaka wrote: post #29
bepvte wrote: post #22

https://cchalpha.blogspot.com/2019/03/bmq-scheduler-call-out... Someone made a scheduler on linux based on some of the ideas here. Its included in the postfactum (linux-pf) patch set i believe, which might have packages for your distro.

No, that's based on the deprecated multi-level round-robin scheduler, which we find tremendously amusing. :)

Oh gosh well thank you for pointing that out
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