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U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#31

Post by ganeshkrishnan »

citilife wrote: post #23

In 2016 the US imported $416B and exported $270B to the EU. Although $11B is a large number, it's a 2.6% tax on the total. More interestingly, is what they are taxing. Personally, I'd rather have tariffs than income tax. At least then I can choose what to buy.

I sell in US and I also support ecommerce sellers in US. Most of us have raised the prices of products to counter the tariffs. You are actually paying income tax as these tariffs.

Some products which can be produced in US will benefit from tariffs. But the whole point of not having tariffs is to buy cheap labour from outside and move your own country up the value chain.

Also, no one is going to start manufacturing these products because the next President is going to remove the tariffs and destroy the advantages, if any.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#32

Post by Rebelgecko »

munk-a wrote: post #14
Rebelgecko wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't every country do the same thing— albeit perhaps not at the same scale? When Embraer complained about Bombardier's subsidies from the Canadian government, the WTO decided that they were illegal. Then Bombardier complained about Embraer's subsidies from the Brazilian government and the WTO decided that those are illegal too.

Yea, but the WTO hasn't gone after the blatant US protectionism - that's the issue. Most other countries are kept relatively in check in terms of trade fairness, but the US is riding their golden chariot.

I'm assuming the justification for the EU tariffs was the WTO's decision last month that the state of Washington is giving Boeing an illegal subsidy in the form of tax breaks.

Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#33

Post by marcrosoft »

Maarten88 wrote: post #24
marcrosoft wrote: post #4

Good! In the past few years the E.U has passed absolutely ridiculous laws and taxed U.S. based companies through these ridiculous laws because they want a slice of the pie too. Edit: They are getting tax through fines by said ridiculous laws not by direct tax.

What ridiculous laws do you mean? GDPR? Or monopoly abuse fines? Do you think US businesses should be able to run under US law in the EU, meaning they can do whatever they want to consumers, monopolizing markets by violating local laws, taking in huge profits, and then hardly paying corporate taxes (neither in EU nor US)? None of that has anything to do with these tariffs, btw.

Do you think the EU should be able to enforce a law on a global scale and completely ignore country jurisdiction like they attempt to do with GDPR?

Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#34

Post by latch »

citilife wrote: post #23

In 2016 the US imported $416B and exported $270B to the EU. Although $11B is a large number, it's a 2.6% tax on the total. More interestingly, is what they are taxing. Personally, I'd rather have tariffs than income tax. At least then I can choose what to buy.

Maybe this is naive, but don't tariffs, like subsidies, risk encouraging local inefficiencies? So your point of view seems shortsighted?

I understand that in theory they can be used to capture externalities to level the playing field, but I find it hard to believe anyone can really figure anything close to the real amount of "unfairness" (for lack of a better word)

Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#35

Post by m0zg »

gumby wrote: post #19
munk-a wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the current administration was elected on a platform of "America First" so, what did you think would happen? I think the US has been self-centered for quite some time, and there was a hilarious thread in a different article that went into the idea that America is the world-policeman that everyone wants but... yea, for equal treatment and to avoid regulatory capture - one needs to avoid that dying empire.

The so-called "America first" policy works against the interests of the United States though. Or is it "destroy America first, screw up the rest later?"

  >> works against the interests of the United States though
That's just, like, your opinion, man, especially after the trade deal with China is finalized. About time someone actually raised a stink about what's going on with China and Europe in terms of foreign trade. It's unpleasant work, but it has to be done, moreso with China than with the EU.

FTA: "“Our ultimate goal is to reach an agreement with the E.U. to end all W.T.O.-inconsistent subsidies to large civil aircraft,” Mr. Lighthizer said."

As a US citizen I don't see anything controversial about this stance.

Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#36

Post by matt4077 »

h3throw wrote: post #30

It seems most posters didn't really read the article as the tariffs appear to be in compliance with a WTO ruling on something illegal the EU is doing wrt subsidies to Airbus. Unsurprising that the NYT and HN goes with the lead that Trump is unilaterally fucking up world order yet again but in this case it doesn't seem so deserved. I really wish both groups (the NYT and HN) would be more nuanced when it comes to Trump…

Every word of the article's headline is true, and the facts it contains (subject, object, action, and magnitude) are the most important facts of this story.

The reasoning you want to see in the headline is in the first paragraph.

If you're interpreting the headline as "Trump is unilaterally fucking up the world order yet again" then that is something that happens entirely in your head.

It's somewhat bold to fault others for an error that is entirely yours.

Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#37

Post by angott »

marcrosoft wrote: post #33
Maarten88 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ridiculous laws do you mean? GDPR? Or monopoly abuse fines? Do you think US businesses should be able to run under US law in the EU, meaning they can do whatever they want to consumers, monopolizing markets by violating local laws, taking in huge profits, and then hardly paying corporate taxes (neither in EU nor US)? None of that has anything to do with these tariffs, btw.

Do you think the EU should be able to enforce a law on a global scale and completely ignore country jurisdiction like they attempt to do with GDPR?

The US has forever been ignoring jurisdiction boundaries just like that. Ever heard of FATCA? Banks anywhere in the world need to report US-resident account holders to the IRS.

Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#38

Post by arcticbull »

citilife wrote: post #23

In 2016 the US imported $416B and exported $270B to the EU. Although $11B is a large number, it's a 2.6% tax on the total. More interestingly, is what they are taxing. Personally, I'd rather have tariffs than income tax. At least then I can choose what to buy.

Consumption taxes are regressive, income taxes are progressive. The poor are disproportionately impacted by tariffs and sales/consumption taxes. The administration is taking money out of the hands of Americans under a truly misguided idea of what a trade deficit is.

Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#39

Post by Maarten88 »

marcrosoft wrote: post #33
Maarten88 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ridiculous laws do you mean? GDPR? Or monopoly abuse fines? Do you think US businesses should be able to run under US law in the EU, meaning they can do whatever they want to consumers, monopolizing markets by violating local laws, taking in huge profits, and then hardly paying corporate taxes (neither in EU nor US)? None of that has anything to do with these tariffs, btw.

Do you think the EU should be able to enforce a law on a global scale and completely ignore country jurisdiction like they attempt to do with GDPR?

They enforce it only on businesses targeting EU residents.

What do you think the US does when I start a business here, say a webshop selling legally allowed recreational drugs, also targeting US consumers?

Re: U.S. Readies $11B in Tariffs on E.U

#40

Post by stale2002 »

oneplane wrote: post #29
stale2002 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one recent example is that of article 13, which is a massive expansion of copyright law. Yeah, no thanks. I do not at all what expansive intellectual property laws to be spreading all over the world, and hurting creators like that. Creators benefit way more when it is easy to share and use and modify other people's content.

I don't think that has anything even remotely to do with tariffs or trade. But if it did: those lows are for the EU, not the rest of the world. Same goes for GDPR. Nobody is required to trade with the EU, or sell to the EU or buy from the EU. But if you do, the rules of the agreements that are made apply. This is nothing new, and works the same way for trade or interaction with pretty much any country. Imagine trying…

The original comment is referring to ridiculous laws that the EU has passed.

The law in question includes things like a link tax, which is pretty ridiculous, IMO, as is the copyright fines that they have.

The rest of your comment is merely a "the law is the law!" kind of justification.

Yes, the law is the law. And I gave reasons as for why these laws are ridiculous, as per the original comment.

I can recognize that a law exists, and also call it a horrible law, that deserves retaliation from the US.

I sincerely hope that the US and everyone else uses trade laws and tariffs to cause economic damage to the EU, specifically because of these horrible laws.

Fair is fair, yo. US trade tariffs are also the law, and are a good way punishing bad laws passed by other countries.

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