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The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

dutchreview.com

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Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is value?

In the article they seem to use the maximum attained market capitalization during its existence indexed to current day dollars.

That's not a good definition of value if you enter into a phase of speculation.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#32

Dutch East India Company had its own colonies and army. Practically speaking, it was a branch of the Dutch government, so comparing it to the contemporary companies doesn't make much sense.

Practically speaking some of today's big companies are branches of the government too.

Not really, what you see rather is Crony capitalism which is when government and large corporations work together to further their interests, often in what should be considered an illegal way.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#33
> For while Smith might be publicly lauded by those who put their faith in private capitalist enterprise, and who decry the state as the chief threat to liberty and prosperity, the real Adam Smith painted a rather different picture. According to Smith, the most pressing dangers came not from the state acting alone, but the state when captured by merchant elites.

> The context of Smith’s intervention in The Wealth of Nations was what he called ‘the mercantile system’. By this Smith meant the network of monopolies that characterised the economic affairs of early modern Europe. Under such arrangements, private companies lobbied governments for the right to operate exclusive trade routes, or to be the only importers or exporters of goods, while closed guilds controlled the flow of products and employment within domestic markets.

The real Adam Smith: https://aeon.co/essays/we-should-look-closely-at-what-adam-s...

Still as relevant today I believe.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#34
post #11

Dutch East India Company had its own colonies and army. Practically speaking, it was a branch of the Dutch government, so comparing it to the contemporary companies doesn't make much sense.

There are several companies working, especially in the middle East and Africa, who have private armies (sometimes naively called security companies). The comparison hold up here. And until the government took possession of the company in the early 19th century, it was controlled by it's board, not the government. So yes, it was a company. Sanctioned by, but not reporting to, the government.

Having private security companies makes sense to protect your operations in certain areas where police is deficient. But you will not really see companies invading territories using force these days. That is pretty much the monopoly of government forces.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically speaking some of today's big companies are branches of the government too.

Name one?

It's probably reasonable to consider regulatory capture the same thing, in practice. For instance this [1] was who the former president appointed to a newly created post, which he himself (the president) referred to as 'The Czar of Foods'. He was the effective head of the FDA's food division. He was a Monsanto VP and lobbyist who had argued for such things as allowing companies to knowingly allow at least a minimal amount of carcinogenic material into processed foods. Great guy to be in charge of food safety. It meant that Monsanto was effectively in charge of food safety in the US.

This led to things such as the FDA not even testing foodstuffs for excessive levels of glyphosate until a Government Accountability Report publicized this [2,3], federal legislation prohibiting state labeling requirements for genetically engineered foodstuffs, the FDA opting for no regulations whatsoever specific to genetic engineering instead offering a purely voluntary consultation process and otherwise relying on self regulation, etc. Monsanto's contemporary success was largely a product of government engineering.

The epilogue also feels somehow political. Shortly after Bayer (a German company) bought Monsanto, they suddenly started losing critical court cases in the US. In particular they've now lost two cases in the US with the courts deciding that Monsanto's glyphosate was the cause of the plaintiff's cancer. This, in turn, has now set the precedent and opened the door for some 11,200 more lawsuits against Bayer for glyphosate causing cancer. In something like 3 years we went from 'This product is so safe, we don't even need to test for it.' to 'This product undoubtedly causes cancer and you now owe billions of dollars in damages to thousands of plaintiffs.' The acquisition was a modern day Trojan Horse.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_R._Taylor

[2] - https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-15-38

[3] - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-food-agriculture-glyphosa...

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#37

Dutch East India Company had its own colonies and army. Practically speaking, it was a branch of the Dutch government, so comparing it to the contemporary companies doesn't make much sense.

Was the VOC a branch of the Dutch government, or was the Dutch government a branch of the VOC? The Dutch government was extremely trade-oriented during the 17th century, and the army would be deployed to protect the trade interests of the VOC.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#38
post #35

Also mentioned: The south sea company was basically a huge banking bubble scam. It is quite an interesting tale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1kndKWJKB8

Hello? Bitcoin? Is that you? Nah just a ghost of poor banking decisions past. Spooky.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#39
post #14

And Adam and Eve were together richer than the USA.

What do you even mean? It sounds like a witty metaphor for something, but even for what? DEIco is a real historical enterprise with well-documented operations.

I assume he meant to decry the use of inflation adjusting and similar shenanigans to be able to compare two groups in vastly different ages. It is similar to saying that a peasant in today's world eats/lives better then a king a thousand years ago.

For instance if you use percentage of world wealth as ameasure, then Adam controlled 50% of the world's wealth, arguably the richest person to ever live (or mythologically live at least).

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#40
post #19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another difference is that slavery was not an issue for them.

Yes, imagine how much more efficient Microsoft and Apple would be if they could hire slaves directly instead of having to rely on warlords in Africa to do it for them.

It looks like slaves were more like merchandise for the VOC. And not really that significant for their trade. They were bought from existing slave markets. Slaves were mainly captured by local Africans (from other tribes).

> the Dutch had only a relatively insignificant share in the Atlantic slave trade—never averaging much more than 5–6 per cent of the total.

https://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/545

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