Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops • Hacker News Board

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#31

Post by monocasa » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:52 PM UTC

chuckgreenman wrote: post #2

I'm hoping that manufactures will start building a plausible deniability user profile you can log into while leaving your actual profile encrypted, appearing to be slack space. This kind of thuggery seems to be getting more common.

TrueCrypt had hidden volumes with plausible deniability.

Aside: don't use TrueCrypt anymore for other reasons.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#32

Post by mikeash » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #29

gruez wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry What's the definition of "temporarily" in this case?

At least 15 years[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saifullah_Paracha

Not a US citizen, so not relevant.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#33

Post by mikeash » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #25

mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

>Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry What's the definition of "temporarily" in this case?

I can’t find a definitive answer (and one may not exist until an appropriate court case happens) but from what I do find, it’s some hours.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#34

Post by wyldfire » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #29

gruez wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry What's the definition of "temporarily" in this case?

At least 15 years[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saifullah_Paracha

Paracha's detention might be unjust but it's only indirectly related to this thread. He is not a US citizen.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#35

Post by Harvey-Specter » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #29

gruez wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry What's the definition of "temporarily" in this case?

At least 15 years[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saifullah_Paracha

He's not a US citizen.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#36

Post by AnaniasAnanas » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

Something relevant from the creator of cock.li https://vc.gg/blog/so-its-been-a-while.html

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#37

Post by jefftk » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #29

gruez wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry What's the definition of "temporarily" in this case?

At least 15 years[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saifullah_Paracha

mikeash was talking about US citizens; Paracha is Pakistani.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#38

Post by wyldfire » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #25

mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

>Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry What's the definition of "temporarily" in this case?

"Justice delayed is justice denied." It's unlikely that it could exceed 24 hours and if it exceeded a couple of hours you could get a preliminary injunction (unfortunately of course you'd need counsel to know about the detention in order to act on your behalf).

As a practical matter, more senior officials at CBP should hopefully know about their limitations and if you request counsel and stay silent then they'd likely release you.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#39

Post by rocqua » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

It was my understanding that 5-th amendment protections against unreasonable searches are suspended at the border. That would certainly include customs at the airport.

So, in a strict legal sense, demanding to unlock a device does not violate the 5th.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#40

Post by sschueller » Wed, Apr 03, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

I think this would be a good opportunity for Apple's legal department to do something. Maybe help the ACLU with it's case against the Department of Homeland security.