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The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

theintercept.com

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Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#31

Post by nickelcitymario »

marnett wrote: post #30
dictum wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm yet to see a clear explanation for citizens not being as much of a risk as, say, a random foreigner located far away from your country. If anything, a citizen is more capable of carrying out a terrorist attack, or just doing any action some foreign power wants to perform in that country. The exception for domestic citizens seems to be just a concession for the masses and their representatives, not a pragmatic cho…

The American revolution was started because citizens did not want the government in their homes.

I don't think that's historically accurate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the battle cry of the revolution "no taxation without representation"? It wasn't about privacy, it was about wanting to be more than just a backwater colony.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#32

Post by blattimwind »

penagwin wrote: post #10
whatshisface wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WTF do you think they do all day? One would hope that they were trying to gain access to someone else's devices, as opposed to turning the guns towards their own citizens and economy. If a soldier showed up at my door and pointed their gun at me, my reaction wouldn't be "of course you're doing that, your job is to point guns."

Somethings like spying on American phone calls (or just their "metadata") I agree with. But somethings like breaking encryption, exploiting iPhones, etc. while they may be used against Americans can also be used against others. Essentially there's an arms race, and we use our tax money to sponsor our government in this race, with the hopes that they'll side with us. There really isn't another option unless you want t…

> Somethings like spying on American phone calls (or just their "metadata") I agree with.

Why keep pretending the CIA is a foreign intelligence service?

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#33

Post by dragonwriter »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #31
marnett wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American revolution was started because citizens did not want the government in their homes.

I don't think that's historically accurate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the battle cry of the revolution "no taxation without representation"? It wasn't about privacy, it was about wanting to be more than just a backwater colony.

> wasn't the battle cry of the revolution "no taxation without representation"?

That was a slogan of the revolution, but there were more than one; it wasn't the unique complaint. There was also a fairly specific list of grievances in the Declaration of Independence.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#34

Post by baddox »

whatshisface wrote: post #7
nickelcitymario wrote: post #5

Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…

> WTF do you think they do all day? One would hope that they were trying to gain access to someone else's devices, as opposed to turning the guns towards their own citizens and economy. If a soldier showed up at my door and pointed their gun at me, my reaction wouldn't be "of course you're doing that, your job is to point guns."

I think it's pretty fair (although naive, obviously) to expect soldiers and intelligence agencies alike to, you know, actually just keep us safe.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#35

Post by java-man »

leggomylibro wrote: post #28
nickelcitymario wrote: post #5

Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…

Aren't domestic investigations the FBI's job, though? Why does the CIA have jurisdiction to steal the intellectual property of an American company?

Why do they hack computers of congressional staffers?

Why do they explicitly violate the law (re: Iran/Contras)?

Why...

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#36

Post by max76 »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #31
marnett wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American revolution was started because citizens did not want the government in their homes.

I don't think that's historically accurate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the battle cry of the revolution "no taxation without representation"? It wasn't about privacy, it was about wanting to be more than just a backwater colony.

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." -- The 3rd Amendment

The early revolutionary war history overly simplified is something like this. Britain increases taxes on America. America stops paying taxes. Britain increases military presence to force America to pay taxes. America fought against the British military.

During the increased British military presence in America the British goverment did terrible things, including living in civilians homes and eating their food. This is what the parent comment meant when he said "The American revolution was started because citizens did not want the government in their homes." Ultimately, the British goverment was in American homes to help the tax collection effort, so your idea of early Americans caring a lot about taxation is also true.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#37

Post by mywittyname »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #25
penagwin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somethings like spying on American phone calls (or just their "metadata") I agree with. But somethings like breaking encryption, exploiting iPhones, etc. while they may be used against Americans can also be used against others. Essentially there's an arms race, and we use our tax money to sponsor our government in this race, with the hopes that they'll side with us. There really isn't another option unless you want t…

> Somethings like spying on American phone calls (or just their "metadata") I agree with. > But somethings like breaking encryption, exploiting iPhones, etc. while they may be used against Americans can also be used against others. Both of these can have a chilling effect on free speech, therefore I'm against the CIA doing this to citizens. The potential threat against citizens nowhere near outweighs the need to upho…

I think we all agree that they shouldn't do this to American citizens. The problem is we can't isolate their capabilities to just foreign persons.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#40

Post by marssaxman »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #5

Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…

I think you all must have a different relationship with your government in Canada than US citizens do.

None of these agencies are "on my own team". They are all adversaries. I feel far more threatened by US government hacking precisely because I live inside US jurisdiction. If we were to have a difference of opinions, and they were to snoop around in my data and decide they didn't like what they found, well, I'm sitting right here; they could easily ruin my life.

What are the Koreans or the Russians or anyone else going to do to me? They're an ocean away and I pose no conceivable threat to them. Harassing me would be expensive and pointless; they're not going to bother.

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