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V Playground

vlang.io

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Re: V Playground

#31

Post by rujuladanh »

jchw wrote: post #25
amedvednikov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've put a lot of information on the home page and the docs. I'm working on articles about C/C++ translation right now. They will be up in a couple of days. What else is hurting you? I'll update the website.

It's not that there isn't enough information; it's that there's a lot of amazing claims and no way for me to evaluate them. Like I'd love to know more about the supposed C++ translation. The homepage shows an example with seemingly idiomatic translation, but is that actually representative of what people could expect?

The GitHub issue about the playground says C++ translation is "not coming soon".

So the claimed C/C++ translation looks misleading.

Re: V Playground

#32

Post by bitt »

This is interesting! I am looking forward to the open source release. Some of the projects built with V also appear to be quite nice. The author has put a lot of effort into this it seems.

Re: V Playground

#33

Post by rujuladanh »

amedvednikov wrote: post #30
nathcd wrote: post #17

I realized the other day that the V author is the same person that created gitly, which was a really nice looking git forge [1]. I believe the author's stated plan was to open source it, but the website went offline after some time without an open source release ever happening. I hope the author follows through on this one, because both projects look(ed) pretty neat! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13819447

It will be back, open source, re-written in V: http://gitly.org I started developing Volt/V in the middle of developing gitly. That's my biggest drawback. I finish 90% of the project, and jump to a different thing. I've grown a lot since then, and I'm slowly wrapping up everything.

The last 10% is usually the actual 90%.

Claims like C++ translation is definitely one of those 90% things that may look easy to some people until you actually try to do it.

Re: V Playground

#34

Post by amedvednikov »

bitt wrote: post #32

This is interesting! I am looking forward to the open source release. Some of the projects built with V also appear to be quite nice. The author has put a lot of effort into this it seems.

Thanks! I have indeed :)

Re: V Playground

#35

Post by ilovecaching »

amedvednikov wrote: post #16
ilovecaching wrote: post #11

Just so everyone is aware, this is more of a toy language that the author makes considerably bold claims about. His benchmarks exaggerate by comparing the speed of print statements, and the language itself is essentially a transpilation (a direct rule based conversion without an AST) to x86 so no other platforms can be supported. He has of yet to actually release any source code so this is just based off of the comme…

Hi, This is definitely not a toy language. Right now it can emit x64 machine code, more platforms will be available after the open-source release in early June.

We will see once you release the source code, but for now maybe tone down the language on your site and in your comments. Of course your code is going to compile faster if you don’t support any platforms or optimizations. If you’re really serious about building a programming language I suggest porting V to llvm IR so you can focus on the parts you’re obviously more interested in.

Re: V Playground

#36

Post by amedvednikov »

ilovecaching wrote: post #28
bitt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the language itself is essentially a transpilation (a direct rule based conversion without an AST) to x86 so no other platforms can be supported. Hmmm I'm not sure if this is true but he says that "V can compile to (human readable) C, so you get the great platform support and optimization of gcc and Clang."[0] [0] https://github.com/vlang-io/V#run-everywhere

Well we have no idea what it can actually do or how it works because it’s not open source. Based on comments I found while researching him, the code is directly translated to the target language with no intermediary representation, so essentially the backends are hard coded and no optimazations take place.

Detailed information about compilation, optimisation, etc is available on the home page and in the docs.

If you need optimization, for now you have to emit C. Like the website says, in the future V will be able to emit optimized machine code.

V will be open sourced this June.

Re: V Playground

#37

Post by amedvednikov »

rujuladanh wrote: post #33
amedvednikov wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be back, open source, re-written in V: http://gitly.org I started developing Volt/V in the middle of developing gitly. That's my biggest drawback. I finish 90% of the project, and jump to a different thing. I've grown a lot since then, and I'm slowly wrapping up everything.

The last 10% is usually the actual 90%. Claims like C++ translation is definitely one of those 90% things that may look easy to some people until you actually try to do it.

I don't think there's a single person on this planet for whom translating C++ would seem easy.

Re: V Playground

#38

Post by amedvednikov »

huntaub wrote: post #2

Of the small amount that I've seen, this is the language that I wish Go were. Obviously, much of the benefit of Go is the standard library coming with "batteries included", so I'm interested to see how this develops over the next few years.

I believe in a strong standard library too.

For example, V has a powerful graphics library that can be used for writing 2D/3D games and all kinds of hardware accelerated apps.

Volt for Linux uses it, so does the vid editor.

Re: V Playground

#39

Post by ilovecaching »

amedvednikov wrote: post #36
ilovecaching wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we have no idea what it can actually do or how it works because it’s not open source. Based on comments I found while researching him, the code is directly translated to the target language with no intermediary representation, so essentially the backends are hard coded and no optimazations take place.

Detailed information about compilation, optimisation, etc is available on the home page and in the docs. If you need optimization, for now you have to emit C. Like the website says, in the future V will be able to emit optimized machine code. V will be open sourced this June.

Care to point me to your detailed information on your compiler and what your optimizations are?

Re: V Playground

#40

Post by amedvednikov »

ilovecaching wrote: post #35
amedvednikov wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, This is definitely not a toy language. Right now it can emit x64 machine code, more platforms will be available after the open-source release in early June.

We will see once you release the source code, but for now maybe tone down the language on your site and in your comments. Of course your code is going to compile faster if you don’t support any platforms or optimizations. If you’re really serious about building a programming language I suggest porting V to llvm IR so you can focus on the parts you’re obviously more interested in.

The website doesn't claim V does optimization in the fast builds. On the opposite, everything is explained very clearly.

Supporting more platforms will not make compilation slower.

> I suggest porting V to llvm IR

No thanks :) I'd like to keep 1.5 million loc per second.

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