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1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

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Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's the idea of Lenin.

Rochdale Pioneers Actually :-) Yes I do know there where precursors to worker coops in Italy prior to that.

I've followed the up and downs of Mondragon for the last decades. Raiffeisen is known in Germany.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any company where the CEO makes over 25 times the average worker is mismanaged. Are they honestly suggesting that the CEO gets 200 times more work in, or has 200 times the experience, or maybe 200 times the connections? Or some combination? Which is it?

What the CEO really has is 200x the affect on the company. A 15m bonus for a CEO may sound ridiculous but if picking that CEO led the company to 50m increase in revenue over an average CEO than it was well worth it to hire them. Or at least, that's how CEOs sell themselves. I think that idea makes sense, but only if the company does well. If it doesn't the execs still have the power to grant themselves massive bonuse…

I really like this thoughtful reply. One thing to add: it's unlikely that the CEO's performance will change that much after a certain payout. S/he will likely put in the same effort beyond some compensation figure, if only because most want to succeed first and foremost for their pride.

A CEO who acts like a true owner would know this and reallocate salaries as needed to keep employees happy and motivated.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#33

Left out Imperva, which was bought by Thoma Bravo in January. 150 people let go while the CEO makes $15 million. Mismanaged incentives - employees don't matter, just shareholders.

Yeah. My last company got bought by them and was told that in spite of their rep for shuttering and turning companies into shells this was absolutely not the case. Cue a few months later almost 10 percent of staff let go, hiring freeze for everyone except the sales department, and closing of the Chicago office to make money. They won't hire new devs even when they quit. If a company gets bought by them and you work there, cash any immediate bonuses and start looking for a new job.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you drive down to San Jose you'll see several companies with a SAP logo who have been bought in the last 10 years in the HR space, e.g. SuccessFactors (2011).

And if your company uses SuccessFactors you can see how little they’ve invested in engineering lately.

It always amazes how bad enterprise systems can be. My company uses SuccessFactors and also a thing called Windchill. After seeing how convoluted Windchill is you will think that SuccessFactors is actually quite decent. Kronos is also a great case study in terrible design.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#35
post #28
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marx had a lot of ideas; some of them were probably good. Involving workers in the ownership of companies seems like a good idea even if Marx supported it. Marxism as practiced in places like, eg, Russia fell down because they disrupted the ability of the market to send and receive accurate price signals and over time that led to catastrophically misallocated resources. Many of the people who want socialism seem to s…

> Russia fell down because they disrupted the ability of the market to send and receive accurate price signals and over time that led to catastrophically misallocated resources. This is extremely ahistorical. The fall of the USSR was due to Gorbachev's decision to introduce "western" markets into Russia and Yeltsin's opportunism. Growth and stability weren't flagging in the Soviet Union until they attempted to privat…

Economic growth was actually even worse before glasnost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Soviet_Union#/m...

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#36
post #28
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marx had a lot of ideas; some of them were probably good. Involving workers in the ownership of companies seems like a good idea even if Marx supported it. Marxism as practiced in places like, eg, Russia fell down because they disrupted the ability of the market to send and receive accurate price signals and over time that led to catastrophically misallocated resources. Many of the people who want socialism seem to s…

> Russia fell down because they disrupted the ability of the market to send and receive accurate price signals and over time that led to catastrophically misallocated resources. This is extremely ahistorical. The fall of the USSR was due to Gorbachev's decision to introduce "western" markets into Russia and Yeltsin's opportunism. Growth and stability weren't flagging in the Soviet Union until they attempted to privat…

They were slowly decaying like Cuba is doing now. Same for East Germany. There wasn’t much growth going on. Stability only in the sense of stagnation.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#37
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the CEO really has is 200x the affect on the company. A 15m bonus for a CEO may sound ridiculous but if picking that CEO led the company to 50m increase in revenue over an average CEO than it was well worth it to hire them. Or at least, that's how CEOs sell themselves. I think that idea makes sense, but only if the company does well. If it doesn't the execs still have the power to grant themselves massive bonuse…

I really like this thoughtful reply. One thing to add: it's unlikely that the CEO's performance will change that much after a certain payout. S/he will likely put in the same effort beyond some compensation figure, if only because most want to succeed first and foremost for their pride. A CEO who acts like a true owner would know this and reallocate salaries as needed to keep employees happy and motivated.

I agree, the best CEO would slash their salary when the going got rough. However, there's no system to keep them accountable to this, so it doesn't happen except in places like Japan, where there's a culture around it.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#38
post #36
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia fell down because they disrupted the ability of the market to send and receive accurate price signals and over time that led to catastrophically misallocated resources. This is extremely ahistorical. The fall of the USSR was due to Gorbachev's decision to introduce "western" markets into Russia and Yeltsin's opportunism. Growth and stability weren't flagging in the Soviet Union until they attempted to privat…

They were slowly decaying like Cuba is doing now. Same for East Germany. There wasn’t much growth going on. Stability only in the sense of stagnation.

Infinite growth isn't necessarily the best way to measure success unless you're an investor. When we frame the world in that way a lot of "good" economies are harsh to live under, and "decaying" economies aren't bad from a quality of life standpoint.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#39
post #25
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marx had a lot of ideas; some of them were probably good. Involving workers in the ownership of companies seems like a good idea even if Marx supported it. Marxism as practiced in places like, eg, Russia fell down because they disrupted the ability of the market to send and receive accurate price signals and over time that led to catastrophically misallocated resources. Many of the people who want socialism seem to s…

As implemented in the current US economy, those price signals are also suppressed through collusion, cronyism, and near monopolies so it's not an exclusive issue of socialism implementations. Many markets are stagnant and do not offer healthy competition. There's a fair share of markets that still offer healthy competition, but from my perspective, it seems like the end goal of market optimization almost inevitably l…

One of the great things about capitalism is that it has some redundancy and resiliency. Competition may also lead to new features (markets), etc. On the other hand, this is duplicative and wasteful. Contrast the duplication (redundancy) of the capitalist system to the one producer model of communism. Less duplication but less resiliency and less ability to find new features (market). I think when a market is young and returns are high that it makes sense for many producers. However as a market matures, we can shed some of the duplication and allocate it to other new markets. If the monopolist restricts quantity sold? Easy, it increases the tears for a new entrant. The system manages itself in this way (in reality no system at all, it's decentralized coordination).
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