Meanwhile, most enterprise apps still seem to only work with JRE 8. And those which I know of have elected to replace Java rather than upgrade.
replace with another jvm hosted language ? like scala / kotlin /clojure ?
Java 12
31–40 of 478 posts
Re: Java 12
#32I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
Serious question: Isn't Java still one of the default languages if you are choosing a "safe" language to build and maintain a large piece of software? Considering how long it's been around and how many libraries exist for it now, i've generally viewed it as a language that's:
- fast enough for most things without a lot of pitfalls/gotchas
- easy enough to read for most developers
- easy enough for most developers to pick up if they've never used it, even if they aren't exactly enthused by the idea of doing so
- supported enough that you'll never be the only person who is debugging something
- widely used enough to never be alone when you are trying to use it in unsupported ways
- has commercial support from multiple companies
Basically all the things that a lot of "enterprise" companies love.
Edit: formatting
Re: Java 12
#33I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
Java has evolved pretty far past its strict OOP roots. I haven't kept up with the last few versions, but it added lambda functions way back in Java 8, for example. There's definitely syntactic baggage holding it back in some ways, but it's added lots of features for more modern functional-programming styles (one mentioned in this release is expression-style switch statements).
More importantly, the JVM ecosystem is much bigger than Java itself. The JVM is a highly-optimized, cross-platform, garbage-collected environment on which people have built much more progressive languages that lack the syntactic baggage of Java: Scala, Groovy, Clojure, Kotlin. Clojure is one of the most popular and performant Lisps we currently have, and Scala is one of the closest things we'll get any time soon to a practical version of Haskell. Both of these projects got to avoid building their own garbage collectors, which is an enormous lowering of the effort barrier. And to top it all off, all of these languages' binaries are interoperable, which not only allows you to use different ones for different parts of the same system, but makes it much easier to gradually migrate your legacy codebase to a newer, better language.
I don't know if I'd start a new project in Java-the-language, but it's far from a Cobol situation.
Re: Java 12
#34I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
Though I also have sympathy for those stuck in it, I kind of wish it would die just so I didn't have to be afraid anymore that I'd one day get stuck with having to use it after a sad sequence of bad luck ending with having to take a job in desperation.
Re: Java 12
#35I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
The Java ecosystem is still there and still rich. It didn't go away or stop growing because golang was released.
You'd rather use wasm to write c to talk to javascript apis? Your case against Java might be more compelling if it wasn't so gross itself.
Re: Java 12
#36I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
The Java ecosystem is still there and still rich. It didn't go away or stop growing because golang was released. You'd rather use wasm to write c to talk to javascript apis? Your case against Java might be more compelling if it wasn't so gross itself.
You're only rich if everyone else is poorer than you. At the point Golang, Javascript, Ruby, and Python (these are just the ones I use) have huge completely open source ecosystems. Java's ecosystem is no longer a convincing argument that we should ignore everything else about the language and it's place in the current line up.
Re: Java 12
#37Still nothing to handle checked exceptions in streams properly... sigh.
Or in FunctionalInterface, or in anonymous functions. Makes HashMap computeIfAbsent much less useful than it should be. It's impossible to use a function in there that throws a checked exception (all I want is for the exception to propagate out of computeIfAbsent for the parent method to deal with). Best option I've found is to wrap it in an unchecked exception, then unwrap it in the parent method, which is just ....…
Another option is to fool the compiler. So-called sneaky throws. Something like
public static void main(String[] args) {
try {
sneakyThrow(new IOException("io"));
Test.emulateThrows();
} catch (IOException e) {
e.printStackTrace();
}
}
static void sneakyThrow(Throwable e) {
Test.sneakyThrow2(e);
}
private static void sneakyThrow2(Throwable e) throws E {
@SuppressWarnings("unchecked") E e1 = (E) e;
throw e1;
}
static void emulateThrows() throws E {
}Re: Java 12
#38I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
Well I wish predicting future is this easy , as of now the place where I work we use lot of spring (Spring cloud) completly microservice and it is only reason I believe java is still alive. Spring makes things lot more easy for us atleast. But I have to agree with you regarding Oracle
May be you will be interested in this article https://spring.io/blog/2019/03/07/has-there-ever-been-a-bett...
Re: Java 12
#39I understand why Java has to keep on chugging along, but I feel bad for the people that have to be a part of it. It's like watching people keep coal trains going while people are moving to cars. Why? Besides being owned by Oracle, which is enough of a reason to never use Java ever again, it's also lost the niches that brought it into existence. Java no longer runs everywhere. Java on the web is dead, and you can now…
There's definitely alot of 'enterprisey' java code out there but that has more to do with the way people code than the language is now. Functional programming(.sort, .map etc) introduced in Java 8 allows more concise code and less boilerplate.
Even with Rust, Go, and .Net core out there it's really hard to beat Java's battletested libraries/frameworks and excellent tooling. Java is still very relevent today and will probably still be for a very long time.
Re: Java 12
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Pause times with Shenandoah are independent of heap size I expect this needs to be taken with a chunk of salt, since a smaller heap can only require so much GC...
> I expect this needs to be taken with a chunk of salt, since a smaller heap can only require so much GC... Pause times. Not GC times. Shenandoah pauses to scan the root set only. The size of the root set doesn't grow with the size of the heap. You can have a large root set and a tiny heap, or a tiny root set and a massive heap. They're entirely independent.
What happens if a huge object becomes unreferenced and a new one of the same size is then allocated before the older one is GC'd (and you don't have enough memory to hold both simultaneously)? Does it just crash or does it pause to collect the older objects first?