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If you can read this you are very lucky

ahumanright.org

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Re: If you can read this you are very lucky

#31

Post by gnaritas »

ynniv wrote: post #25
gnaritas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything that you just mentioned is a limitation on what a person can do to another person. They are fulfilled by people doing less, not more Simply not true. Property rights require someone to enforce them; police don't work for free. Jury's require jurors who very often don't want to be there. Speedy trials require judges and jurors to work efficiently, and again, not free. Protection from unreasonable search a…

Property rights require someone to enforce them; No, property rights and enforcement of property rights are separate things. Jury's require jurors who very often don't want to be there. Speedy trials require judges and jurors to work efficiently, and again, not free. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure requires someone to enforce it. The right to confront your accuser requires the accuser to testify. The…

> However your arguments that rights require the actions of others is unconvincing.

As are your rebuttals.

Re: If you can read this you are very lucky

#32

Post by kilps »

VMG wrote: post #5

I think it is a mistake to make something a human right that has to be provided by somebody else.

Take a look at the South African Bill of Rights - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_South_Africa_Ch... - it includes rights to education, health care, water, access to information and human dignity (which many of the other rights are a result of).

Perhaps it is a result of our history, but I don't see why promoting a basic standard of living through socio-economic rights is a mistake - you can't properly exercise your right to freedom of speech (which I assume is the sort of right that you are in favour of) without food and water.

Re: If you can read this you are very lucky

#33

Post by gnaritas »

zcid wrote: post #27
gnaritas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything that you just mentioned is a limitation on what a person can do to another person. They are fulfilled by people doing less, not more Simply not true. Property rights require someone to enforce them; police don't work for free. Jury's require jurors who very often don't want to be there. Speedy trials require judges and jurors to work efficiently, and again, not free. Protection from unreasonable search a…

Property rights are based on the premise that I cannot take what you have. Police are there to enforce this limit. Jury trials prevent unfair convictions being levied by the government. Jurors enforce this limit. Speedy trials prevent unjust imprisonment without trial being forced upon an individual. The right to protection from unreasonable search and seizure is there to limit the government's invasion of a citizens…

> All of these are obvious limitations upon others.

Meaningless if not enforced.

> Yes, they require people to enforce them

Exactly the point.

> but the net result is less action, not more.

Irrelevant distinction.

> Providing internet access or clean water is adding something not previously inherent to the system

Who cares, I said nothing about any of that.

> I'm surprised that this difference need be pointed out.

If you paid attention to what I said, you'd be surprised you're bothering to point it out since I didn't say anything about it.

> As a side note, anybody that avoids jury duty or regrets the necessity of safeguarding a fellow citizen's rights should be ashamed and spend some serious time in reflection on why we conduct jury trials.

Agreed.

Re: If you can read this you are very lucky

#35

Post by ynniv »

gnaritas wrote: post #31
ynniv wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property rights require someone to enforce them; No, property rights and enforcement of property rights are separate things. Jury's require jurors who very often don't want to be there. Speedy trials require judges and jurors to work efficiently, and again, not free. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure requires someone to enforce it. The right to confront your accuser requires the accuser to testify. The…

> However your arguments that rights require the actions of others is unconvincing. As are your rebuttals.

I'm glad that you found a friend to upvote you, but that is a ridiculous retort. If you are going to spend the time typing a reply, you should do us the courtesy of making it worth the time everyone else spends reading it.

I wonder if there is notion of wall-time in the HN codebase, with which we could only allow a reply that took at least a minute to compose.

Re: If you can read this you are very lucky

#36

Post by gnaritas »

ynniv wrote: post #35
gnaritas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However your arguments that rights require the actions of others is unconvincing. As are your rebuttals.

I'm glad that you found a friend to upvote you, but that is a ridiculous retort. If you are going to spend the time typing a reply, you should do us the courtesy of making it worth the time everyone else spends reading it. I wonder if there is notion of wall-time in the HN codebase, with which we could only allow a reply that took at least a minute to compose.

Whatever, get over yourself. I'm not here to please you.
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