Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes • Hacker News Board

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#31

Post by foobarbazetc » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:54 PM UTC

nkkollaw wrote: post #13

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #6

I've said this before so I'll ask this again- I'm an American and I'm entirely ignorant on UK politics. I've followed the headlines and I am still confused why Brexit is happening. It seems no one wants Brexit as it has been suggested by the political leadership of UK, and the majority want to avoid no deal at all. I do not understand why not call the entire Brexit thing off; why is that political suicide?

Well, people vote for something and you ignore their democratic vote. Pretty bad.

Nobody voted for what is about to happen. Or May’s deal.

That’s the whole issue (apart from putting Brexit up to a 50% referendum in the first place).

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#32

Post by nicoburns » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

nkkollaw wrote: post #9

pmyteh wrote: post #4

The current BBC headline is "Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes", which is a better summary of the situation. For a variety of reasons (legal, procedural, and political) MPs can't simply resolve to reject Brexit, and didn't do so today. What they can do is reject the exit deal that May has negotiated. Some of them have voted to do this because they want a 'softer' Brexit with a closer ongoing relation…

Do you personally think that the UK will actually end up leaving the EU in 10 days? If yes, what are the chances of that happening?

It's not impossible, but probably not. I'd give it maybe a 10% chance. There's a clear majority of MP's who don't want a No Deal scenario. Most likely there will be a postponement of some kind, but probably a short one.

What happens at the end of that period is entirely unclear at this point. Leaving without a deal is still a distinct possibility, but probably not the most likely one. I'd give about even odds to some kind of deal being wrangled, and there being another referendum.

Of course, even another referendum doesn't necessarily resolve things. The vote is likely to be close again.

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#33

Post by rtkwe » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

napo wrote: post #8

It's getting closer and closer to a no-deal, and yet the pound doesn't really go down. Does anybody understand why?

I think the consensus is they will just extend instead of actually going through a 100% no-deal Brexit. Seems like a fairly safe bet given the UK can do it unilaterally and how bad it would be.

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#34

Post by air7 » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

nkkollaw wrote: post #9

pmyteh wrote: post #4

The current BBC headline is "Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes", which is a better summary of the situation. For a variety of reasons (legal, procedural, and political) MPs can't simply resolve to reject Brexit, and didn't do so today. What they can do is reject the exit deal that May has negotiated. Some of them have voted to do this because they want a 'softer' Brexit with a closer ongoing relation…

Do you personally think that the UK will actually end up leaving the EU in 10 days? If yes, what are the chances of that happening?

It's just insane that that is a valid question.

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#35

Post by eropple » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #10

TicklishTiger wrote: post #5

Why do politicians always seem so uncivilized to me? Both sides of an argument always argue as if they believe the other side is stupid and they know for sure they are right. That is the biggest stupidity in itself. Why are there no politicians that spend their time on trying to understand the other side, rather then shouting out their own message? Those would be the ones I would vote. But they simply do not exist.

Yeah I despair at this too. One problem a sensible moderate person who can work with people doesn't generate headlines, which means no one knows about them and no one votes for them. You get someone who "fights for what is right", "takes a stand" and "doesn't back down" you'll get well known and people will vote for you. Sad state of affairs, I dont know what to do to change it.

The gray fallacy/golden mean problem is real. A "sensible moderate person" frequently, in the terms of those bemoaning the lack of them, privileges "moderate" over "sensible", implicitly wishing that someone would look at "let's eat babies" and "let's not eat babies" and conclude "let's eat some babies."

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#36

Post by retrac98 » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

nkkollaw wrote: post #17

retrac98 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but she did nominate herself for the job after the vote. Still, better than Cameron.

I wonder why though, since she voted to stay..? I wouldn't be that excited about carrying out my competitor's plans (unless of course I wanted to sabotage them, which sometimes I wonder if she wanted to do).

I’ve nominated myself for work stuff I really didn’t agree with in the past, it was because I thought I could help said stuff not be a total disaster.

Leading a country through brexit is a hell of a sword to fall on though. :/

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#37

Post by cheeseomlit » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #6

I've said this before so I'll ask this again- I'm an American and I'm entirely ignorant on UK politics. I've followed the headlines and I am still confused why Brexit is happening. It seems no one wants Brexit as it has been suggested by the political leadership of UK, and the majority want to avoid no deal at all. I do not understand why not call the entire Brexit thing off; why is that political suicide?

It's happening because the people voted for it in a referendum. Calling it off would be seen as ignoring the wishes of their constituency. Their reasons for voting that way in the first place are varied, many UK citizens (and people in other EU member states) don't like the idea of giving up some of their country's autonomy/sovereignty to a central authority they had no part in electing/appointing, and they may disagree with some of the policies imposed on them by that authority.

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#38

Post by kadabra9 » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

tedivm wrote: post #21

schintan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because if Parliament overturns the people's vote it sets a dangerous precedent.

It was a non-binding referendum. It wouldn't be "overturning" anything. A delay plus a new vote (now that people are more educated on things) seems like the most democratic way to handle this.

"people didnt vote the way I wanted them to vote, so they must either be uneducated or the process is undemocratic!"

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#39

Post by ddebernardy » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

I followed the Commons debates during both votes. It's just surreal. It's as if the UK was living in some kind of bubble where just about anything happening outside of it had no existence let alone importance whatsoever. If I were a UK voter I'd be extremely angry.

As an EU citizen I sincerely hope the outcome will be the UK ultimately staying in -- if only because of the outright lies during the referendum and the suspicion of Russian influence in the Leave vote.

On a positive note, May mentioned a People's Vote was an option tonight. Insofar as I'm aware that's a first.

Re: Brexit: MPs reject Theresa May's deal by 149 votes

#40

Post by vkou » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

tedivm wrote: post #21

schintan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because if Parliament overturns the people's vote it sets a dangerous precedent.

It was a non-binding referendum. It wouldn't be "overturning" anything. A delay plus a new vote (now that people are more educated on things) seems like the most democratic way to handle this.

1. I have no issue with a Parliament overturning a non-binding referrendum.

2. Why do you expect that the vote will turn out any different? One third of the country wants a hard brexit, one third wants a soft brexit, and one third wants no brexit. There is no way to make even a majority happy. Having another vote will put you right back where you were two years ago.