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Boeing scrambles to contain fallout from deadly crash

nytimes.com

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Re: Boeing scrambles to contain fallout from deadly crash

#31

Post by gojomo »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #19
gojomo wrote: post #12

What an awful metaphor – "contain fallout" – for the NYT to use in its current online headline. ("Boeing Scrambles to Contain Fallout From Deadly Ethiopia Crash") It makes it sound like there's some toxic debris Boeing is still racing to clean-up, when in fact the story is just about financial/reputational after-effects. (NYT's original print headline for this story, "Crisis for Boeing As Safety Worry Grounds New Jet…

> It makes it sound like there's some toxic debris Boeing is still racing to clean-up, when it fact the story is just about financial/reputational after-effects. It doesn't make it sound like that at all. I don't think anyone except maybe you reads it that way. "Fallout" well-understood to mean "effects" or "results".

Clearly others (commenting & upvoting) read it that way as well. Good headline writing avoids murky euphemisms, especially if the originating source of the metaphor – in this case, bombs & debris from the sky – overlaps confusingly with the actual facts.

Re: Boeing scrambles to contain fallout from deadly crash

#32

Post by AaronM »

ethbro wrote: post #29
voodooranger wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t seen any evidence that the two Max crashes are related. The first one was the result of Lion Air flying a plane that was not airworthy because its AOA sensor was known to be faulty. There is no information about the cause of the second crash as of yet. You’re making a claim about the purported alignment of Boeing, the FAA, and the “American media/industrial complex” (whatever that is) but I’m not aware that…

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who's a pilot (I know there are a few of them here). What are the interactions between an automated system and the pilot? Specifically, can a plane quickly switch from flyable to out of control? There's a huge number of unknowns here, but I thought most pilot assistance systems were designed to be disengaged if needed.

These forums have several threads about the recent crashes and grounding with some experienced pilots discussing. https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

Re: Boeing scrambles to contain fallout from deadly crash

#33

Post by lainga »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #19
gojomo wrote: post #12

What an awful metaphor – "contain fallout" – for the NYT to use in its current online headline. ("Boeing Scrambles to Contain Fallout From Deadly Ethiopia Crash") It makes it sound like there's some toxic debris Boeing is still racing to clean-up, when in fact the story is just about financial/reputational after-effects. (NYT's original print headline for this story, "Crisis for Boeing As Safety Worry Grounds New Jet…

> It makes it sound like there's some toxic debris Boeing is still racing to clean-up, when it fact the story is just about financial/reputational after-effects. It doesn't make it sound like that at all. I don't think anyone except maybe you reads it that way. "Fallout" well-understood to mean "effects" or "results".

Boeing Cleans Up Burning Debris And Aircraft Parts from Recent Crash (in a Publicity Sense)

Re: Boeing scrambles to contain fallout from deadly crash

#34

Post by ethbro »

droithomme wrote: post #14

It does look possible that the anti-stalling software new to these planes has a bug.

I hesitate to even say something, in deference to the much more knowledgeable folks working this at the NTSB and sister agencies right now.

But I'd be surprised if it were that simple, especially given the airtime of all planes flown. Airtime which I'd assume passed largely without incident, as by now some news agency should have drug up any similar close calls.

If we're doing wild speculation, I'd bet on something like the Tesla battery punctures (where it turned out high-energy impacts from pointed road debris were more common than expected).

E.g. a maintenance issue, coupled with a specific configuration, coupled with pilot behavior

Or, it could just be a poorly maintained plane and a freak accident. But that's what root cause analysis and black box recordings are designed to ascertain.

Re: Boeing scrambles to contain fallout from deadly crash

#36

Post by gojomo »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #27
slyfocks wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it that way as well—-words do have secondary and tertiary connotations, and any competent journalist knows how to use composition and careful word choice to more effectively convey a particular narrative.

Here are some other recent NY Times headlines that use the word fallout Trauma May Have Fallout Over Generations Cambridge Analytica and Facebook: The Scandal and the Fallout So Far As Trump Struggles With Helsinki’s Fallout, Congress Faces a New Charge: Complicity Inside Uber’s $100,000 Payment to a Hacker, and the Fallout Nissan and Renault Wrestle With the Fallout From Carlos Ghosn’s Arrest Fallout is widely used…

All your examples use 'fallout' about abstract occurrences – not situations where an actual plane-and-jet-fuel crashed-and-exploded from the sky, throwing some actual 'fallout' across a debris field.

As far as I can tell, clean-up crews are having no notable problems with the fallout from the crash. Boeing is scrambling to contain the damage to its business.

Re: Boeing scrambles to contain fallout from deadly crash

#38

Post by [deleted] »

voodooranger wrote: post #25
liability wrote: post #3

Boeing and the FAA no doubt believe they are protecting shareholders by not grounding the fleet, but they're risking their reputation. If it turns out that Boeing is at fault, will the American media/industrial complex be able to keep a lid on it? I doubt it.

I haven’t seen any evidence that the two Max crashes are related. The first one was the result of Lion Air flying a plane that was not airworthy because its AOA sensor was known to be faulty. There is no information about the cause of the second crash as of yet. You’re making a claim about the purported alignment of Boeing, the FAA, and the “American media/industrial complex” (whatever that is) but I’m not aware that…

[deleted]

Re: Boeing scrambles to contain fallout from deadly crash

#40

Post by toufka »

voodooranger wrote: post #25
liability wrote: post #3

Boeing and the FAA no doubt believe they are protecting shareholders by not grounding the fleet, but they're risking their reputation. If it turns out that Boeing is at fault, will the American media/industrial complex be able to keep a lid on it? I doubt it.

I haven’t seen any evidence that the two Max crashes are related. The first one was the result of Lion Air flying a plane that was not airworthy because its AOA sensor was known to be faulty. There is no information about the cause of the second crash as of yet. You’re making a claim about the purported alignment of Boeing, the FAA, and the “American media/industrial complex” (whatever that is) but I’m not aware that…

We have some data from real-time tracking that the "vertical speed was unstable after take off" [1]. And that both crashes are similar in that regard, and both accidents could be explained by a problem with the newly deployed MCAS software system.

Clearly, there are no answers yet. There is no known cause for this recent crash yet. But there is some evidence. And that scant evidence might be coincidence, but it also has well-informed people concerned.

[1] https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1104668693613764609

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