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Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

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Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#31
Another point I've noticed about sprints: It usually creates a problem of "uh we have too much content in the sprint compared to available resources, but it can't be reasonably split into smaller pieces" before the sprint and "uh we didn't deliver what we've overpromised" after the sprint, and people being stressed of tasks always moving from one sprint to another.

Sometimes you have things to do with high estimates (many days) that can't be reasonably split into smaller pieces (the "you don't know what you don't know, and what exactly has to be done" situation). But still, it doesn't look good to put a too highly estimated task in the sprint, so you instead split it into fake "Do X, part 1" and "Do X, part 2", which is basically creative accounting to satisfy the tooling.

In that situation, the Scrum theory says to create a "spike" to figure out what to do, and then create the proper stories, but if often doesn't work this way in real life (in particular, if you need to discover and then deliver ASAP, this doesn't help at all; also often you're in "continuous discovery" mode, i.e. you do stuff, discover what else is needed, and so on, until you're done).

Edit:

A solution to overpromising is to create "bonus" tasks that are kept in the backlog and not put in the sprint, but this lowers the incentive to take them since they're not formally in the sprint (and also who's taking big out-of-sprint items while there's unfinished small stuff in the sprint?)

Adding all the unpredictable things happening during the sprint, basically the sprints are creating more problems than they're solving.

The only good things about them are:

- SLAs for other teams for higher level planning

- a way of saying "no" to incoming requests ("sprint content full, sorry")

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#33
post #18

I think the author misses what the purpose of deadlines is. They are contracts between organizations for when software will be available, which are used for other organizations to make informed decisions without needing very tight and constant communication. They're analogous to SLAs in service-oriented designs. In a moderately large (say, 500+ employee) organization, deadlines are essential to get anything done. Sup…

No, the idea is that you don't set hard deadlines for the team - they're pointless. It results in unnecessary stress and work won't get done any faster (maybe in the short term, but it's unsustainable). Either the deadline is too short and your team has to work overtime, or it was too generous and you lose efficiency. The project manager, of course, still needs to be able to make an estimate according the his team's…

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Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#34

I think the author misses what the purpose of deadlines is. They are contracts between organizations for when software will be available, which are used for other organizations to make informed decisions without needing very tight and constant communication. They're analogous to SLAs in service-oriented designs. In a moderately large (say, 500+ employee) organization, deadlines are essential to get anything done. Sup…

An even simpler way to put it:

I have $1,000,000 in the bank. I have 10 engineers. If we don't make at least a break-even income in 6 months I have to fire 10 engineers. So you have 2 months to build something so I can spend 4 months hyping people up to buy a bunch of it or we close down. And I know your engineer asses ain't gonna write bug-free code.

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#35

I think the author misses what the purpose of deadlines is. They are contracts between organizations for when software will be available, which are used for other organizations to make informed decisions without needing very tight and constant communication. They're analogous to SLAs in service-oriented designs. In a moderately large (say, 500+ employee) organization, deadlines are essential to get anything done. Sup…

There are two kinds of deadlines: the ones imposed by objective facts (like for example the Y2K deadline), and the ones imposed by arbitrary decisions (like for example a milestone in a project plan). I think it is important to distinguish the two.

There's also a 3rd kind of deadline and they're the worst kind. It's the "our sales team have already told the customer it will be ready by then so you need to tell me how you're going to achieve that" deadline.

I can deal with hard technical deadlines and project milestones - the former is a fact of life and the latter is often required to help focus larger projects. What I emphatically dislike is sales guys making business decisions before checking with the engineering teams to determine how much effort is required to deliver a project.

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#36

The author deeply misunderstands Scrum. They also misspell it as SCRUM but that's another story... Sprints are timeboxes and not deadlines. Stuff is done at a "normal" pace and it either fits (or does not) in that timebox. Fundamentally, it does not really matter in itself. Noting down whether the estimation was correct or not, though, is important. The whole point is that a team is supposed to get more _predictable_…

This is one of the reasons Scrum stopped using the word commitment in favor of forecast https://www.scrum.org/resources/commitment-vs-forecast Most people who say they are doing Scrum or think they are doing Scrum aren't really. Scrum is far from perfect but it's better than most of the bastardizations people invent for themselves when they claim to be doing it.

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Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#37

I think the author misses what the purpose of deadlines is. They are contracts between organizations for when software will be available, which are used for other organizations to make informed decisions without needing very tight and constant communication. They're analogous to SLAs in service-oriented designs. In a moderately large (say, 500+ employee) organization, deadlines are essential to get anything done. Sup…

> If your answer to them is "I can't tell you, we just do stuff on the kanban board and don't think about deadlines," they're (1) going to be less than thrilled with you, decreasing trust, and (2) unable to make their decision effectively. I think the point is that if you do make those commitments you are just making things up, in reality those commitments are worth pretty much exactly as much as not making the commi…

>I think the point is that if you do make those commitments you are just making things up, in reality those commitments are worth pretty much exactly as much as not making the commitments.

Well, reality is not that harsh and there is a middle ground. It definitely is possible to complete things on schedule. Assuming "cost, time and scope - choose two" as a reasonable model, there are trade-offs you can make to get the thing out in time. What the OP argues, and I fully agree, is that it's unsustainable for people to work with deadlines all the time. But I think that discarding deadlines entirely can be competitive suicide. There is a way to put in place deadlines in particular strategic circumstances, assuming (again as the OP implies) you have some control of either scope or cost.

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#38

The author deeply misunderstands Scrum. They also misspell it as SCRUM but that's another story... Sprints are timeboxes and not deadlines. Stuff is done at a "normal" pace and it either fits (or does not) in that timebox. Fundamentally, it does not really matter in itself. Noting down whether the estimation was correct or not, though, is important. The whole point is that a team is supposed to get more _predictable_…

As an aside, "sprint" (which obviously implies moving at the greatest speed possible for a human on foot, pushing themselves to a point which cannot be sustained for long distances) is pretty poor terminology for something meant to represent something happening at a sustainable pace. I'm sure I'm not the first or last person to point this out, though.

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#39
Regarding creativity what I found over my time writing code is that you need time to do deep thinking. That’s the only way I know of to harness complexity successfully. Here is the twist: you don’t know how much time you need doing it because you don’t know when realisations emerge. The problem with deadlines is that they create stress and stress is the enemy of deep thinking. The funny thing is that while a deadline can be entirely accurate in estimating the amount of deep thinking required for a task, the mere presence of it prohibits achieving the relaxed state of mind that is required for deep thinking.

Re: Deadlines and sprints are bad for you

#40
post #9

ok, it looks like this guy has never worked in a working SCRUM environment. > Suggesting that meeting a sprint by cutting corners is a thing. Yes, in bad scrum implementations. SCRUM and KANBAN have both pro's and con's. If you can't implement SCRUM in a good way, you will also have a problem with KANBAN. There some good discussions about on online like https://fenix.tecnico.ulisboa.pt/downloadFile/3779576751814/...…

I was astounded to watch in one organisation while the Software Eng. Manager talked in terms of sprint failure and turned it into a performance issue. That resulted in all sort of unintended consequences.

yeah. some people tend to make "under" perf personal.

even some devs to themselves. that's usually totally counter productive. working on getting better is usually the way forward.

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