By all means build a team outside the Bay Area, there's plenty of talent elsewhere but the assumption you will get the same talent in India for specialized disciplines like machine learning (as opposed to generic web dev or other commoditized skills) shows this company was built by hucksters with no idea about technology, and not a little contempt for engineers.
Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
31–40 of 69 posts
Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are excellent engineers in the Midwest too.
But the salary differential between top engineer in the Bay Area vs. top engineer in the Midwest is more like 2-3x than 10-15x.
There is also cultural and distance difference, if you quantify it into money and time it might make the difference not so big, those things matter a lot especially in a startup. As opposed to the common touted dogma, diversity is not a strength and most successful startups are quite homogenous.
Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
#33If you're an engineer in India with skills that mirror those of American engineers, why would you settle for a significantly lower pay?
The best Indian engineers I've worked with all made their way over to the US OR knew how much they were worth and set their rates SLIGHTLY below US salaries.
Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are excellent engineers in the Midwest too.
But the salary differential between top engineer in the Bay Area vs. top engineer in the Midwest is more like 2-3x than 10-15x.
I’d say smaller than that. Working in Pittsburgh there are plenty of folks netting Bay Area comp packages (180K+ base salaries, 100K+ stock grants, big bonuses, etc). I don’t think the point of opening a Midwest office is cheaper engineers, but the ability to tap into local expertise cocentrations (robotics and AI/ML in the case of PGH).
Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
#35ugh, as a developer from a remote country that’s been working for 10+ years for US companies I run as fast as possible from companies like this one.
If I provide the same value as US engineers, why should I make less than US engineers?
Fortunately, I’ve been able to make my case. I hope these Indian engineers realize they’re making 1/15th what they should.
Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
#36If you're an engineer in India with skills that mirror those of American engineers, why would you settle for a significantly lower pay? The best Indian engineers I've worked with all made their way over to the US OR knew how much they were worth and set their rates SLIGHTLY below US salaries.
Top Indian talent did go to the US by default, but that peaked ~10 years ago. Nowadays there is enough opportunity in India - and the US immigration process is bad enough - that most people I know just don't bother. The visa backlog is almost entirely made up of the tech equivalent of minimum wage workers, all sponsored by Infosys/TCS and other consulting firms.
And the "SLIGHTLY below US salaries" part is an exaggeration. Top talent in India is still at most a third of the high-end Silicon Valley rate.
Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
#37If you're an engineer in India with skills that mirror those of American engineers, why would you settle for a significantly lower pay? The best Indian engineers I've worked with all made their way over to the US OR knew how much they were worth and set their rates SLIGHTLY below US salaries.
Top Indian talent did go to the US by default, but that peaked ~10 years ago. Nowadays there is enough opportunity in India - and the US immigration process is bad enough - that most people I know just don't bother. The visa backlog is almost entirely made up of the tech equivalent of minimum wage workers, all sponsored by Infosys/TCS and other consulting firms. And the "SLIGHTLY below US salaries" part is an exagger…
most of America is significantly below the high-end of Silicon Valley rate.
Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
#38Come to Salt Lake City. We even have absurd branding to lure you "silicon slopes!" There are a few SF organizations with satellite offices here. I've worked for one, have friends working for others. It's a pretty decent arrangement. You can get a team setup here for the cost of a single employee in the bay (especially when you factor in real estate.) Hell, maybe more. Shit, some of us will take pay cuts to avoid work…
What about the LDS influence. I'd be worried about moving here to start a family.
Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
#39Come to Salt Lake City. We even have absurd branding to lure you "silicon slopes!" There are a few SF organizations with satellite offices here. I've worked for one, have friends working for others. It's a pretty decent arrangement. You can get a team setup here for the cost of a single employee in the bay (especially when you factor in real estate.) Hell, maybe more. Shit, some of us will take pay cuts to avoid work…
Many, many people can't stand the influence LDS has on culture, alcohol, nightlife, sexuality, dating, etc. It's huge there.
Re: Why we built our core engineering team outside of the SF Bay Area
#40ugh, as a developer from a remote country that’s been working for 10+ years for US companies I run as fast as possible from companies like this one. If I provide the same value as US engineers, why should I make less than US engineers? Fortunately, I’ve been able to make my case. I hope these Indian engineers realize they’re making 1/15th what they should.
Can you elaborate on the methods you've used to "make my case" for getting paid fairly, as a remote (and Indian??) engineer?