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Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

nytimes.com

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Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#31

Post by cthor »

TobbenTM wrote: post #19
techie128 wrote: post #9

It is unbelievable that Huawei can do this in US and pretty much in any democratic country. The reverse is absolutely not true. The Chinese government has used every tool at its disposal to make life miserable for foreign competitors - see Google's exit, AWS, Apple, Uber and countless other companies were / are still being harassed. When was the last time a foreign company won a court case in China against its local…

So do you want us all to sink to their level, or actually be the democratic countries we pretend to be?

The correct response to defectbot is defecting back

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#32

Post by zaphirplane »

atoav wrote: post #22
geowwy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not back doors in my opinion. It's more that the US is expecting 5G to be big (really big) and they don't want to world relying on China for their infrastructure. It's bad for (America's) national security and it gives China too much clout.

Sadly the five eyes couldn’t proof a single backdoor in Huawei products while the history of backdoors in US hardware is quite well documented. If the five eyes hadn’t shown time and time again, that they don’t give a damn about the laws and rights of other democratic nations, and quite definitly use “security” as a token for industrial spionage, I might show more support. But please show more than some fiction in wh…

The issue isn’t current back doors as you are trying to shift the conversation towards, it is about future Chinese government ordered back doors. I mean you’d have to be in a special dumb category to insert back doors today with all the coverage

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#33

Post by zaphirplane »

techie128 wrote: post #9

It is unbelievable that Huawei can do this in US and pretty much in any democratic country. The reverse is absolutely not true. The Chinese government has used every tool at its disposal to make life miserable for foreign competitors - see Google's exit, AWS, Apple, Uber and countless other companies were / are still being harassed. When was the last time a foreign company won a court case in China against its local…

The courts interpret the law, the government can pass a law to level the playing field

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#34

Post by ovi256 »

dirtyid wrote: post #7
ganoushoreilly wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely a case of using the somewhat fair US court systems to enforce a do as we say not as we do scenario. I imagine the USG will envoke national security protections to limit exposure of any information as they have in the past. I don't really see this case going anywhere, more so with EU countries making similar claims and allegations of their operating practices.

IMO Huawei's just seeking to rehabilitate their image, if the US refuses to publicly release evidence that contradicts the preponderance of sources that couldn't find back doors, then the entire US campaign against Huawei can be dismissed as a smear campaign. It's going to make US look dirty/petty and allows Huawei/China to save face. Huawei shares source code with GCHQ and US have already hacked into Huawei internal…

>have already hacked into Huawei internal emails and found nothing

That means nothing, even if today the Chinese intelligence services take absolutely no interest in penetrating Huawei - which is laughable - that can change. If five years from now Huawei 5G equipment is used to build your countries 5G network, the Chinese gov uses their equivalent of a NSL and it's game over.

Even if today's Huawei is clean.

That's the real threat model. And that's why the US threatened 5 eyes countries to take away their access if they use Huawei equipment.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#35

Post by rakoo »

geowwy wrote: post #15
rakoo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huawei, and the Chinese industry in general is at the forefront of 5G coming soon, and the West is mad that China can be more advanced than them and scared that all the equipment we use for deploying 5G is from them and, consequently, full of (not backdoors) spying capabilities. As someone whose country isn't part of five eyes, the hypocrisy makes me quietly laugh. (Edit: updated for less gratuitous accusations)

The issue is not back doors in my opinion. It's more that the US is expecting 5G to be big (really big) and they don't want to world relying on China for their infrastructure. It's bad for (America's) national security and it gives China too much clout.

As opposed to the world relying on, say, American equipment, because that would be better for all the countries' national security?

I definitely understand the argument but the hypocrisy is just too loud to put aside.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#36

Post by ovi256 »

atoav wrote: post #28
zaphirplane wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence is required to support the statement “a Chinese company will do whatever it’s told to do by the communist party irrespective of the law” The people that keep trying to defend that, have special Place with the people defending tobacco companies.

Actual evidence of backdoors would be a start. There is a long list of state security enforced backdoors in american products. The list for Huawei is short. The US typically assumes the tactics itself uses must be used by anybody else. If you want us to choose between the Chinese and the Five Eyes spying on us, providing actual evidence for Chinese spying would be worth a lot for the side that has at least traces of…

>Actual evidence of backdoors

There doesn't have to be a backdoor today. In the future, whenever they desire, the Chinese gov can ask Huawei for access and they will comply. That's the threat model.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#37

Post by rjf72 »

ddoolin wrote: post #2

> “The actual and intended effect of these prohibitions is to bar Huawei from significant segments of the U.S. market for telecommunications equipment and services, thereby inflicting immediate and ongoing economic, competitive, and reputational harms on Huawei,” the company’s lawyers wrote in the suit. This is incredulously ironic coming from a Chinese company. China, who sets up just about every barrier imaginable…

Economic systems aren't built on benevolence. The reason the US has the economic system it does is because they believe it to be the most 'effective' system by various metrics. Incidentally that's the exact same reason that China has the system it does. As a comparable example the reason the founding fathers built freedom of speech deep into the US constitution was not because they liked people saying naughty or unpopular things, but because they felt that systems in which those in power could control what those out of power could say was counter-productive to building and maintaining a strong nation. We do these things not because they are 'good' but because they are optimal.

That's what makes this issue so interesting. On paper we've fully embraced globalism while China has embraced outward globalism and inward nationalism. In reality the US market is still completely dominated by US companies or by companies from 'friendly' nations. E.g. in smartphones South Korea and USA make up the vast majority of all sales.

But now 'unfriendly' nations are increasingly creating products that are becoming not only competitive but in some cases industry leading. So we find ourselves in the position of countries such as China. Do you allow companies from 'unfriendly' nations to setup and start on what may be a path to dominance, or do you give unfair preference to domestic/'friendly' products? We never had this issue before because final product competition from 'unfriendly' nations was negligible!

And this is before you get into all the intelligence intrigue going on behind the scenes. The NSA has stated they have access to "extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information" [1] on the products of 'participating' companies including Google, Apple, Microsoft, and others. Suffice to say companies such as Huawei are less likely to 'participate' in such activities.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#38

Post by sudden »

TobbenTM wrote: post #19
techie128 wrote: post #9

It is unbelievable that Huawei can do this in US and pretty much in any democratic country. The reverse is absolutely not true. The Chinese government has used every tool at its disposal to make life miserable for foreign competitors - see Google's exit, AWS, Apple, Uber and countless other companies were / are still being harassed. When was the last time a foreign company won a court case in China against its local…

So do you want us all to sink to their level, or actually be the democratic countries we pretend to be?

Excactly. The comments here are baffling.

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#39

Post by richardwhiuk »

dirtyid wrote: post #27
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most countries probably leans towards Huawei anyway (more advanced and cheaper) cheaper yes, but not really more advanced. (speaking of their RAN technology as well as their O&M plane, also their cloud is a clusterfcuk) > Hell even 3/5 Five Eyes are currently undecided. could you elaborate a bit more please? My understanding was that Australia, NZ, and UK were all aligned with the narrative pushed by the US. Which…

Australia was firm ban before US push due to past strains with China. US is obviously going to ban. UK (Along with Germany and Italy) said Huawei concerns could be managed a couple weeks ago within 24 hours of each other. Shortly after that NZ, previously seemed firm ban, had their PM publicly clarify on radio that Huawei was not ruled out. A bunch of Canadian articles released about how UK waffling allowed fellow al…

NZ has an effective ban on Huawei kit aiui

Re: Huawei Sues U.S. as a ‘Last Resort’ Over What It Calls an Unfair Ban

#40

Post by zaphirplane »

atoav wrote: post #28
zaphirplane wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence is required to support the statement “a Chinese company will do whatever it’s told to do by the communist party irrespective of the law” The people that keep trying to defend that, have special Place with the people defending tobacco companies.

Actual evidence of backdoors would be a start. There is a long list of state security enforced backdoors in american products. The list for Huawei is short. The US typically assumes the tactics itself uses must be used by anybody else. If you want us to choose between the Chinese and the Five Eyes spying on us, providing actual evidence for Chinese spying would be worth a lot for the side that has at least traces of…

Wow such a strong voice for a foreign (to you) company, or is it - shifty eye look

Your position is weird, you need evidence that the Chinese are spying on you ? And you don’t think they do ? Ha too funny

You want proof that the Chinese communist party will never order them to insert a back door. ROTFL

You really are preparing your social credit score when the over lords arrive

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