Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash • Hacker News Board

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#31

Post by pgeorgi » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 9:41 PM UTC

sho wrote: post #25

spectramax wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much information, if any, is withheld by military organizations in various countries. I presume a particular country doesn’t want to give away their latest radar capabilities or what have you by disclosing tracking information whether it’s through satellite systems or through sub-ocean sonar.

> I wonder how much information, if any, is withheld by military organizations in various countries. Ooh, I can answer that. All of it, unless forced to disclose by political factors. There is no upside to the military to releasing anything, ever. HN is a geekfest, and I'm a geek too. I could not, and still cannot, comprehend how resistant to the "helpfulness instinct" a military man is. I, by my very nature, cannot…

> I have zero doubt that one or more militaries in the area, especially Singapore, know exactly where MH370 went, or at least what direction it eventually took off in.

There were so many cranks producing ideas where MH370 went, they could have just used one of those as a front by "backing" a theory that happens to be nearby the point where they have to search, gently nudging the search closer to where it really is and score tons of points for being first in a huge international search effort.

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#32

Post by sho » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

pgeorgi wrote: post #31

sho wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how much information, if any, is withheld by military organizations in various countries. Ooh, I can answer that. All of it, unless forced to disclose by political factors. There is no upside to the military to releasing anything, ever. HN is a geekfest, and I'm a geek too. I could not, and still cannot, comprehend how resistant to the "helpfulness instinct" a military man is. I, by my very nature, cannot…

> I have zero doubt that one or more militaries in the area, especially Singapore, know exactly where MH370 went, or at least what direction it eventually took off in. There were so many cranks producing ideas where MH370 went, they could have just used one of those as a front by "backing" a theory that happens to be nearby the point where they have to search, gently nudging the search closer to where it really is an…

What I was trying to get across in my comment is that the military, in general, does not care in the slightest about those "points". They will not release anything unless specifically and explicitly forced to and needless to say they have not been. They are quite happy to watch other governments, or even their own government, waste millions of dollars looking in the wrong place. Correcting them is not in their mission statement and, frankly, not even part of their thinking.

The whole area is one of the most densely packed geopolitical zones in the world. It beggars belief that multiple parties did not observe, in detail, the whole thing. It was not a stealth aircraft. Fucking Australia probably saw it. I am quite certain Singapore did.

Like I said, we'll probably hear all about it in a few decades.

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#33

Post by skookumchuck » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 10:24 PM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #30

skookumchuck wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it could relieve a great deal of pain and suffering I confess I don't understand this. The families know how their loved ones died, when, and sort of where (in the ocean). How does knowing the precise location help any?

I think the rituals around death aren't complete without a story. It's the reason why before they tore down the eastern span of the Bay Bridge that let the families of people that died on the bridge visit the spot where they died.

I understand wanting to know more details. But having gone through rituals around death of someone close myself, it doesn't ease any of the pain.

I've also wondered about those families attending the execution of the person who murdered their loved one. I doubt it eases their pain and suffering in the slightest.

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#34

Post by bastawhiz » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

pgeorgi wrote: post #31

sho wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how much information, if any, is withheld by military organizations in various countries. Ooh, I can answer that. All of it, unless forced to disclose by political factors. There is no upside to the military to releasing anything, ever. HN is a geekfest, and I'm a geek too. I could not, and still cannot, comprehend how resistant to the "helpfulness instinct" a military man is. I, by my very nature, cannot…

> I have zero doubt that one or more militaries in the area, especially Singapore, know exactly where MH370 went, or at least what direction it eventually took off in. There were so many cranks producing ideas where MH370 went, they could have just used one of those as a front by "backing" a theory that happens to be nearby the point where they have to search, gently nudging the search closer to where it really is an…

Why would they risk it? Even if the risk was a 0.001% chance, the cost of losing that bet is infinitely higher than keeping their mouths shut. There is no upside for a military to disclose that information. It's all risk, with no benefit. Militaries aren't people, they're political organizations with lots of secrets that need keeping.

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#35

Post by djsumdog » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 10:51 PM UTC

ximeng wrote: post #15

http://mh370.radiantphysics.com/2018/11/17/ocean-infinity-fi... “Unfortunately, the acoustics generated by the impact of MH370 on the ocean surface would not propagate along the “deep sound channel” (DSC) the way an underwater acoustic event does, so the impact likely was not detected by CTBTO sensors.” - suggests this is unlikely, although not detailed explanation

They probably don't have the money or influence to get a search crew out there and are hoping this report will encourage some other treasure hunting group to check it out and confirm/reject their theory.

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#36

Post by pgeorgi » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 11:05 PM UTC

sho wrote: post #32

pgeorgi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have zero doubt that one or more militaries in the area, especially Singapore, know exactly where MH370 went, or at least what direction it eventually took off in. There were so many cranks producing ideas where MH370 went, they could have just used one of those as a front by "backing" a theory that happens to be nearby the point where they have to search, gently nudging the search closer to where it really is an…

What I was trying to get across in my comment is that the military, in general, does not care in the slightest about those "points". They will not release anything unless specifically and explicitly forced to and needless to say they have not been. They are quite happy to watch other governments, or even their own government, waste millions of dollars looking in the wrong place. Correcting them is not in their missio…

> or even their own government

I guess it depends on the relationship between government and military, but how common is it for the government to ask all its appropriate organizations (intelligence services, military, weather service, semi-military maritime research orgs) if they have anything about it and for all those organizations to lie?

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#37

Post by matt4077 » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 11:17 PM UTC

sho wrote: post #25

spectramax wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much information, if any, is withheld by military organizations in various countries. I presume a particular country doesn’t want to give away their latest radar capabilities or what have you by disclosing tracking information whether it’s through satellite systems or through sub-ocean sonar.

> I wonder how much information, if any, is withheld by military organizations in various countries. Ooh, I can answer that. All of it, unless forced to disclose by political factors. There is no upside to the military to releasing anything, ever. HN is a geekfest, and I'm a geek too. I could not, and still cannot, comprehend how resistant to the "helpfulness instinct" a military man is. I, by my very nature, cannot…

> All of it, unless forced to disclose by political factors.

Here's a list of DoD press releases: https://dod.defense.gov/News/Releases/

It lists around 500 just in the last year. I don't quite see how "Navy to Christen Guided-Missile Destroyer Frank E. Petersen Jr." would fall under "forced disclosure due to political factors".

I know it's fun to daydream of that perfect organisation constantly updating its "threat actor assessments" and how your speech was really what made the difference in going to Force Protection Condition Medium.

But seriously: the DoD has dozens of press staffers and the phone numbers of people that could pass on a tip under the radar. They have ongoing as well as incident-specific efforts to coordinate with civilian efforts. They regularly pass along environmental measurement data collected from ships, airplanes, and satellites to support research, weather forecasting, or disaster preparedness.

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#38

Post by sab0tag3 » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

teeray wrote: post #27

skookumchuck wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The APU is for electric power on the ground, it is not used in flight.

...except in emergency situations. Starting the APU was one of the first things they did during the “Miracle on the Hudson” incident IIRC. It’s conceivable that some in-air emergency happening prior to the loss of communication would have required starting it as a checklist item. EDIT: I just wanted to add that aside from electrical power, it provides bleed air necessary to start the engines, run de-icing (also run A…

I think we have agree to rule out that any of the problems affecting this situation resemble an emergency.

It can only be flagrant sabotage, or a blunder compounded by savage incompetance.

Either they fucked up so bad that they didn't just shoot themselves in the foot, but instead blew their whole leg off. Possible with hypoxia scenarios.

Or someone sealed the fate of that flight in cold blood. This version narrative includes the premise of suicide, including single-handed, lone wolf pilot suicide, although other nefarious possibilities fall under this umbrella.

The predominant fact of the outcome is that they flew so far off course, and without any distress signals, that their ultimate fate passed into history as a near total enigma which essentially requires strenuous effort or fantastic misfortune.

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#39

Post by dewey » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 8:57 AM UTC

skookumchuck wrote: post #33

Gibbon1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the rituals around death aren't complete without a story. It's the reason why before they tore down the eastern span of the Bay Bridge that let the families of people that died on the bridge visit the spot where they died.

I understand wanting to know more details. But having gone through rituals around death of someone close myself, it doesn't ease any of the pain. I've also wondered about those families attending the execution of the person who murdered their loved one. I doubt it eases their pain and suffering in the slightest.

It’s almost like feelings are a very subjective matter and not the same for everyone. Not everyone thinks the same way as you do.

Re: Ocean Microphones May Have Recorded Lost Malaysian Jet's Crash

#40

Post by spdustin » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 9:42 AM UTC

willyt wrote: post #19

turtlegrids wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 including the Ram Air Turbine (RAT)

The RAT is not an engine and doesn’t deploy unless all other engines have shutdown in flight, and it induces drag because it’s a kind of ‘wind turbine’ that drops into the airstream and generates electrical power (and maybe hydraulic pressure)

You got that backwards; it “powers” hydraulics, and in some (uncommon) cases, supplies electrical power to other systems.