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Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

#31

Post by Pulcinella »

amenod wrote: post #28
iscrewyou wrote: post #4

I’ve wondered this too. But maybe ux is more important in this case than privacy. There’s a red or blue bar that shows up when mic or location or hotspot is on. I’d hate to see that when my full screen camera app opens. But I do value privacy. So another solution would be what Mac has implemented. A led shows up whenever the camera is on. But I’ve seen reports and articles where it’s possible to fire the Mac camera a…

> But I’ve seen reports and articles where it’s possible to fire the Mac camera and shut it off quickly before the LED has time to kick on. It should be trivial to delay LED's 'off' if it happens too soon after the 'on' signal. There are many possible solutions if designers actually care about users' privacy.

I wonder if it would be possible to wire the LED and camera module in series so that the only way for the camera to receive power is if the LED light is also on?

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

#32

Post by ymolodtsov »

mariopt wrote: post #21
natch wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um no, the whole point of that code is to show a preview on the screen. The comment you replied to is asking about the opposite, whether it's possible to hide the fact that the camera is being used.

You're right, I'll find another example and update the answer. I believe this is possible, in React Native you can access the camera and programmatically set the preview component size. As far as I know, there is nothing preventing you from using the camera to a preview component that is not visible on the screen. If Whatapps can do this: https://cdn.howtoisolve.com//wp-content/uploads/2016/12/How-... It means you ca…

You need to ask user’s permission for camera first anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

#33

Post by nitrogen »

GhostVII wrote: post #14
mariopt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, https://youtu.be/jTm4fjx_eZ0?t=532 this is done with React Native. I don't think nothing prevents you from rendering the camera UI preview component with an opacity of 0.0 I guess the main problem that no smartphone manufacturer wants to address is: People who take photos without permission to other people. It would be reasonable to enforce a law on all manufactures to add visible LED when the phone camera is be…

I don't think that would be reasonable. Unless there is a significant safety issue or privacy issue that would be solved, I don't think the government should force manufacturers to add features to their phones, seems like a pretty extreme overreach. Any LED added could easily be removed or covered up in a few seconds, so I don't see how it changes anything.

The ability to defeat a safety or privacy measure doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented. People sometimes buckle their seatbelts behind them instead of wearing them, but seatbelts are still mandatory in most places.

There are many different instances where someone would want an indicator for a camera and would not block the LED: detecting apps that take pictures without being asked, knowing whether the person across the street is taking a photo or a selfie so you don't accidentally photo bomb, random people taking photos who didn't block the LED (of all the camcorders with LEDs back in the day, how many actually had the LED covered?), etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

#34

Post by thebeefytaco »

wincy wrote: post #11

I remember reading that the Japanese iOS makes a loud shutter noise when you take a picture that can’t be silenced. It’s actually apparently a Japanese law. https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-turn-the-camera-shutter-sound...

It's a law there because upskirting is a huge problem. I think OP was referring to an LED indicator so the phone owner/user could tell if the camera is in use by an app though.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

#35

Post by jsjohnst »

Pulcinella wrote: post #31
amenod wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I’ve seen reports and articles where it’s possible to fire the Mac camera and shut it off quickly before the LED has time to kick on. It should be trivial to delay LED's 'off' if it happens too soon after the 'on' signal. There are many possible solutions if designers actually care about users' privacy.

I wonder if it would be possible to wire the LED and camera module in series so that the only way for the camera to receive power is if the LED light is also on?

That’s actually what happens on current (as in since 2010) Apple laptops. The camera sensor can not receive power without the LED being on. Pre-2010, the design had a flaw and all the stories about “hacking the camera” that are legit, are about the pre-2010 design.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

#36

Post by aboutruby »

amenod wrote: post #28
iscrewyou wrote: post #4

I’ve wondered this too. But maybe ux is more important in this case than privacy. There’s a red or blue bar that shows up when mic or location or hotspot is on. I’d hate to see that when my full screen camera app opens. But I do value privacy. So another solution would be what Mac has implemented. A led shows up whenever the camera is on. But I’ve seen reports and articles where it’s possible to fire the Mac camera a…

> But I’ve seen reports and articles where it’s possible to fire the Mac camera and shut it off quickly before the LED has time to kick on. It should be trivial to delay LED's 'off' if it happens too soon after the 'on' signal. There are many possible solutions if designers actually care about users' privacy.

I did some basic testing (capture an image on a warmed up macbook webcam) and the LED lights up for ~1.6s for each capture. The bigger problem is that if you are looking elsewhere / not in front of your computer you wouldn't notice the capture.

Did it using this script: https://tenderlovemaking.com/2014/03/26/webcam-photos-with-r...

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

#37

Post by pwim »

wincy wrote: post #11

I remember reading that the Japanese iOS makes a loud shutter noise when you take a picture that can’t be silenced. It’s actually apparently a Japanese law. https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-turn-the-camera-shutter-sound...

Technically there is no law requiring there to be a shutter sound, but rather a standard practice that all Japanese mobile phones implement.

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

#39

Post by [deleted] »

vatys wrote: post #25
carlesfe wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that kills the power to the cameras And the microphones, please :)

Apple seems to be taking steps in that direction https://www.apple.com/mac/docs/Apple_T2_Security_Chip_Overvi... All Mac notebooks with the Apple T2 Security Chip feature a hardware disconnect that ensures the microphone is disabled whenever the lid is closed. On 13-inch MacBook Pro and MacBook Air computers with the T2 chip, this disconnect is implemented in hardware alone, and prevents any software—even with root o…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is there no activity indicator when an iPhone's camera is on?

#40

Post by cyphar »

lumberingjack wrote: post #13

I just want a phone that has a manual physical toggle button that kills the power to the cameras if any apps need the camera they can just notify me to please toggle that switch. One of the nightly build that I put on my note 8 turns on the edge screen notification flash when the cameras are on every once in awhile I see that thing on no reason.

The Librem 5 will have 3 hardware kill switches -- for WiFi, Cellular, and Camera/Microphone.
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