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Overpaid CEOs 2019

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Re: Overpaid CEOs 2019

#31

Post by will_pseudonym »

bit_logic wrote: post #19
will_pseudonym wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that if unions actually do make inroads into the software development world, the gaming industry will likely be the last to unionize. The reason that the gaming industry is worse off for developers is not because the game development shops are inherently greedy. They have horrible conditions for those workers because they can. So many people want to develop games rather than do any other kind of software deve…

Hollywood is not an example supporting your point (SAG - Screen Actors Guild).

There's certainly a union there, yes. Though, what are the working conditions in the entertainment industry, exactly?

Re: Overpaid CEOs 2019

#32

Post by B-Con »

stickfigure wrote: post #24
munk-a wrote: post #4

The CEO (and upper management in general) pay scale is total BS when viewed through normal compensation lenses, unlike normal people who are paid for their time, upper management is usually compensated on performance -but- they are compensated on the performance of their company (or division) and they get all the pie. Since nobody else's pay is scaling with performance (outside of bonuses which in my experience usual…

nobody is 100x more efficient than anyone else The stockholders of Kodak, Blockbuster, Toys R Us, Radio Shack, Payless, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, DeLorean, TWA, Pan Am, and Arthur Anderson might beg to differ.

I don't like the word "efficient" in contexts like this, I prefer "effective".

Yes, some people are simply 100x more effective than others.

Re: Overpaid CEOs 2019

#34

Post by microcolonel »

ahelwer wrote: post #5

Software engineer unions are coming, and it will start with the games industry. Attitudes within our field are changing! Used to be you couldn't mention the U-word without a dozen engineers jumping down your throat bellowing about "efficiency" (for whom and what?) but engineers are smart and you can only fool them with the same old anti-union propaganda for so long.

> Software engineer unions are coming

I will absolutely and unequivocally reject them, in almost any form. I would not be here today if software jobs were broadly unionized, and I will not allow myself to become that hypocritical.

The pay is pretty good, use it to buy insurance and investments. If your part of the industry is seasonal or project-oriented, line up other work in advance.

Re: Overpaid CEOs 2019

#35

Post by zemo »

will_pseudonym wrote: post #14
ahelwer wrote: post #5

Software engineer unions are coming, and it will start with the games industry. Attitudes within our field are changing! Used to be you couldn't mention the U-word without a dozen engineers jumping down your throat bellowing about "efficiency" (for whom and what?) but engineers are smart and you can only fool them with the same old anti-union propaganda for so long.

I think that if unions actually do make inroads into the software development world, the gaming industry will likely be the last to unionize. The reason that the gaming industry is worse off for developers is not because the game development shops are inherently greedy. They have horrible conditions for those workers because they can. So many people want to develop games rather than do any other kind of software deve…

except there's VO and mocap talent that are already unionized, so games engineers have wider exposure to unionized peers. For example, I would assume that Norman Reedus is in SAG-AFTRA since Scott Wilson (his costar on Walking Dead) was on the board of SAG-AFTRA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_video_game_voi... <-- there's no equivalent in the startup/web industry.

Re: Overpaid CEOs 2019

#36

Post by hangonhn »

will_pseudonym wrote: post #14
ahelwer wrote: post #5

Software engineer unions are coming, and it will start with the games industry. Attitudes within our field are changing! Used to be you couldn't mention the U-word without a dozen engineers jumping down your throat bellowing about "efficiency" (for whom and what?) but engineers are smart and you can only fool them with the same old anti-union propaganda for so long.

I think that if unions actually do make inroads into the software development world, the gaming industry will likely be the last to unionize. The reason that the gaming industry is worse off for developers is not because the game development shops are inherently greedy. They have horrible conditions for those workers because they can. So many people want to develop games rather than do any other kind of software deve…

"so the game dev shops know that most/all inhumane treatment will be accepted by the next person who will gladly endure it to be working in the industry."

This is precisely the environment where unions emerged. If individual workers had a lot of leverage, there would never be a need for unions.

Re: Overpaid CEOs 2019

#37

Post by ryandrake »

stickfigure wrote: post #24
munk-a wrote: post #4

The CEO (and upper management in general) pay scale is total BS when viewed through normal compensation lenses, unlike normal people who are paid for their time, upper management is usually compensated on performance -but- they are compensated on the performance of their company (or division) and they get all the pie. Since nobody else's pay is scaling with performance (outside of bonuses which in my experience usual…

nobody is 100x more efficient than anyone else The stockholders of Kodak, Blockbuster, Toys R Us, Radio Shack, Payless, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, DeLorean, TWA, Pan Am, and Arthur Anderson might beg to differ.

Only if you believe these companies’ demises can be primarily attributed to poor CEO ability, and that a different CEO could have shown better results.

I believe that in many cases a bad leader can cruise on the success and momentum of an already smooth-sailing company, and similarly a good leader can fail to turn around a sinking ship. Who knows to what extent company performance can be linked with CEO ability or efficiency?

Re: Overpaid CEOs 2019

#38

Post by will_pseudonym »

vvanders wrote: post #21
will_pseudonym wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that if unions actually do make inroads into the software development world, the gaming industry will likely be the last to unionize. The reason that the gaming industry is worse off for developers is not because the game development shops are inherently greedy. They have horrible conditions for those workers because they can. So many people want to develop games rather than do any other kind of software deve…

Eh, I would disagree based on what you see within the various entertainment unions/guilds in movies and TV. I think there's a path there. I know back when I was in the industry I would have killed for a organization like what was available in film.

For actors/staffers of the entertainment industry, that's the largest and nearly only outlet for those workers to have gainful employment. For people working in the games industry, they have other options and choose to go in those positions despite known horrible conditions.

On the topic of unions in the entertainment industry, is there a union for computer graphics engineers in the entertainment industry? I couldn't find one, but I'm genuinely curious.

Re: Overpaid CEOs 2019

#39

Post by jjoonathan »

jlawson wrote: post #18
munk-a wrote: post #4

The CEO (and upper management in general) pay scale is total BS when viewed through normal compensation lenses, unlike normal people who are paid for their time, upper management is usually compensated on performance -but- they are compensated on the performance of their company (or division) and they get all the pie. Since nobody else's pay is scaling with performance (outside of bonuses which in my experience usual…

I just want to point out a mathematical error in your post. You said, "nobody is 100x more efficient than anyone else". This is a reasonable (though not strictly true) statement by itself. But the implication is wrong - nobody needs to be 100x more efficient/effective to justify a 100x pay differential. Consider an example: * Company earns 1 billion per year. * Normal-Person will increase profits 5%. * Super-Exec wil…

That should only affect Super-Exec's base pay if they can prove up front that choosing them can be expected to increase profits by 10%. Otherwise the "10% of profits" expected value figure needs to be diminished according to uncertainty -- which will send it straight back down out of the stratosphere. Yet that doesn't happen. Which suggests a different game is being played.

Re: Overpaid CEOs 2019

#40

Post by egypturnash »

will_pseudonym wrote: post #14
ahelwer wrote: post #5

Software engineer unions are coming, and it will start with the games industry. Attitudes within our field are changing! Used to be you couldn't mention the U-word without a dozen engineers jumping down your throat bellowing about "efficiency" (for whom and what?) but engineers are smart and you can only fool them with the same old anti-union propaganda for so long.

I think that if unions actually do make inroads into the software development world, the gaming industry will likely be the last to unionize. The reason that the gaming industry is worse off for developers is not because the game development shops are inherently greedy. They have horrible conditions for those workers because they can. So many people want to develop games rather than do any other kind of software deve…

Uh, you are aware that game developers are actively talking about unionizing, while most software developers aren’t? The shitty conditions are what’s making them decide to start talking about banding together to demand a bigger piece of the profits.

Every discussion of game unions I see here tends to have a lot of people talking about how they are quite happy with their financial compensation at their non-game job, and how they don’t want to unionize because what if it was a shitty union?!?

Also, Hollywood is kind of one of the major bastions of strong unions in the US. There’s a lot of entertainment unions in show business.

(My favorite example: compare the conditions of folks at union 3d animation gigs with the condition of folks in the non-unionized VFX world; better pay and more stable jobs for pretty much the exact same skills.)

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