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Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

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31–40 of 234 posts

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#31
post #23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insects are most efficient btw, but there are cultural reservations about them in the west.

If Silicon Valley can propel nutrient sludge like Soylent into notoriety, then I'm sure it can do the same for cricket nuggets. :P

>...like Soylent into notoriety...

As long as it isn't green. =]

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#32
post #28
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst culprit for many people I know is flying. You can eat a lot of meat for the emissions of just one long-haul flight. (Which is sad because flying is great.)

Reference: http://www.kimnicholas.com/uploads/2/5/7/6/25766487/fig1full...

I wonder what the difference between 'switch electric car to car free' and 'live carfree' is?

The effect over time or not using rentals/other people's cars maybe?

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#33

When I first moved to Europe I was struck by just how domesticated the land is. I can sleep in the open without being afraid of snakes, scorpions, spiders, wolves or bears. Even when land is "wild", the larger mammals will be rabbits, deer, wild goats and such. Excepting natural parks, hunters are the only predators. At least in Spain, a tremendous percentage of land is put at the service of mankind. The dehesas give…

The Europeans killed off most large animals like Aurochs and Bison, and a few predators including Tigers, Lions. They also killed off most of the forests.

When I was in southern Germany I did notice how cultivated the land was. There were a few patches of trees but they didn’t look like old growth forests. Even the hills were cultivated into farmland.

Costa Rica is a good example of developing a country who wants to keep their natural resources in tact. 25% of their land are national parks.

Wild boars scare me much more than black bears.

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#34
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is the sole producer of certain electronic components, this is not viable at present. Granted if you really really want to reduce your personal emissions, stop using technology from post-1950, maybe buy some land...

>China is the sole producer of certain electronic components, this is not viable at present. Maybe we should increase tariffs on Chinese components to promote production elsewhere.

In order to bring about... what? In order to punish them for their environmental destruction? If you want sustainably made phones, etc, you're going to need to pay more money, wherever it's made, I bet even China is capable of environmentally friendly manufacturing, it's just that no one will buy those products because the alternative (the products made using the current system) will be so much cheaper.

It's not just China, btw, there are pig farms in the USA with open sewage pools. But, cheaper meat!

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#35
post #2

> In 2010, Norway pledged to support Indonesia with up to 1 billion USD depending on results. It's easy to sit in a developed western country, buying products from other countries, and then complain about their emissions. I'm glad that we're trying to be responsible. It may not be enough or not the right way to do it (some thoughts on this?), but it's something.

This is exactly what most Westerners do not get about China. If you want to reduce emissions stop buying their products.

let me fix that for you:

if you want to reduce emissions stop consuming

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what most Westerners do not get about China. If you want to reduce emissions stop buying their products.

And buy products from where instead? Is everything made in China uniformally disastrous for the environment? I was under the impression the easiest way for people, who live in developed nations, to reduce emissions is to eat less meat?

China is fastracking to being a developed nation faster than anyone before, and missing out many of the developed world's mistakes. They'll have poisonous air for a shorter time than the US or Europe did. They'll have the least obsolete infrastructure of anyone. Making stuff in China isn't necessarily disastrous.

Making huge amounts of overly cheap shite that doesn't last, or do the job properly is especially disastrous as it encourages waste.

Shipping huge amounts of stuff around the globe is disastrous.

Making stuff in places that don't yet have mature and tight environmental protections is disastrous. (Probably a significant reason it moved there in the first place)

I'd pay more for a MBP or another Thinkpad made in Greenock (where IBM used to make them), or anywhere in the EU. I'm in a minority so small it may as well not exist in wanting locally made stuff. For most stuff, I try not to buy at all, but I can rarely choose local any more.

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#37
post #27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China is the sole producer of certain electronic components I don't believe this is correct in meaningful sense. Do you have any examples? China assembles many components, but that's not something that can't be moved to elsewhere. Vietnam is already replacing China. Best way to deal with exported CO2 emissions is to put carbon tax on imports and not to try to control where they are manufactured.

Nearly all passives, generic active components, and a bulk of the cheaper processes ICs are being produced in China for a while now. PCBA production is another issue, but much of it happens in China too. Vietnam doesn't seem to be really that different from China in politics, environment or other respects. It is hard to see how moving things from China to Vietnam is an improvement.

China is not the sole producer in any of these categories and not even the biggest.

Japan is still the biggest exporter of passive components.

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#38
post #32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reference: http://www.kimnicholas.com/uploads/2/5/7/6/25766487/fig1full...

I wonder what the difference between 'switch electric car to car free' and 'live carfree' is? The effect over time or not using rentals/other people's cars maybe?

Manufacturing and maintaining a vehicle produced pollution itself, so not creating demand for one is less polluting than still creating a demand for a vehicle of any type.

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#39
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And buy products from where instead? Buy less products overall. > I was under the impression the easiest way for people, who live in developed nations, to reduce emissions is to eat less meat? The most effective thing is probably less carbon intensive transport (that means first and foremost flying). But less meat (or better no meat) is still among the more impactful things.

Airliners get better fuel efficiency per mile per passenger than most single-occupant cars. The majority of people do not fly multiple times per week. Having said that, I do agree with the main thrust of your comment: consume less.

They also don't drive several thousand or tens of thousand kilometers in one go once or more a year either in addition to the normal driving, so I'd say that argument is not helpful here.

Re: Indonesia reports reduced deforestation, triggering carbon payment from Norway

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what most Westerners do not get about China. If you want to reduce emissions stop buying their products.

let me fix that for you: if you want to reduce emissions stop consuming

Institute a carbon tax that fully captures the externalities of releasing CO2 in the air and people will be forced to.
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