US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians • Hacker News Board

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#31

Post by mytherin » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

anonymou2 wrote: post #23

maxsilver wrote: post #9

The safest infrastructure are ones that split pedestrian / bicyclist / motor traffic as much as possible, for obvious reasons. But that infrastructure has fallen out of favor as of late. "Complete streets" are the new fashion trend, and are significantly more dangerous, by combining these forms of traffic altogether and just sort of hoping it all works out. But, "complete" streets are super cheap, and give the illusi…

No, cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles: http://www.johnforester.com/

No, the safest option is to separate cycle lanes from roads altogether, as is evidenced by the significantly lower death toll per km that e.g. the NL and Denmark have compared to the US [1]. In those countries, cyclists almost never share the road with car drivers.

In roads that are not designed for cycling (where cyclists have to share the road with car drivers), perhaps it is true that they fare best when they act as vehicles. However, the safest option by far is not sharing the road with cars to begin with.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/02/24/the-mo...

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#32

Post by cainxinth » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

Florida has pretty bad drivers. They are the 8th worst state according to this list: https://smartasset.com/checking-account/states-with-the-wors...

I think it's because it's a state with a lot of transplants (such as yourself) so you have a big mix of driving styles all interacting and they sometimes clash.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#33

Post by electricslpnsld » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #29

chasd00 wrote: post #21

heh a couple summer's ago in Dallas i got hit by a police officer while crossing the street. Ironically, while he was on his cell phone. I had to do the whole ninja-roll thing over the hood and on to the pavement. Came out of it with only a sore wrist and a funny story for the conference call i was late to. a buddy of mine grabbed a guy and pulled him out of the way of a city bus. The guy had the light to cross and t…

Honestly I think right turns on red should be illegal at more intersections for this reason. At least busier ones. It's these cases where a right turner has to carefully watch for oncoming traffic that pedestrians are exactly opposite of where they're looking. God forbid you're trying to cross from the same side of the street as the right turner.

NYC outlaws rights on red unless otherwise posted and it makes life as a pedestrian so much better.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#34

Post by ab71e5 » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

I moved from the Netherlands to Canada and still bike to a lot of places. While I of course expected the lack of infrastructure, I did not fully expect the amount of hate I would be getting.

People here see you as some idiot who is playing with his toy while `serious` people are driving. They yell at you to get on the sidewalk, get off the road, that you don`t pay `road tax` (wtf), some homophobic shit. Canadians are so nice otherwise, but not on the road.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#35

Post by cglace » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:37 PM UTC

junga wrote: post #15

maxsilver wrote: post #9

The safest infrastructure are ones that split pedestrian / bicyclist / motor traffic as much as possible, for obvious reasons. But that infrastructure has fallen out of favor as of late. "Complete streets" are the new fashion trend, and are significantly more dangerous, by combining these forms of traffic altogether and just sort of hoping it all works out. But, "complete" streets are super cheap, and give the illusi…

>The safest infrastructure are ones that split pedestrian / bicyclist / motor traffic as much as possible, for obvious reasons. Can you provide a source for this? (especially concerning the separation of bicyclists and motor traffic)

If you completely separate two things they can not collide.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#36

Post by Wowfunhappy » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:37 PM UTC

electricslpnsld wrote: post #33

nkrisc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I think right turns on red should be illegal at more intersections for this reason. At least busier ones. It's these cases where a right turner has to carefully watch for oncoming traffic that pedestrians are exactly opposite of where they're looking. God forbid you're trying to cross from the same side of the street as the right turner.

NYC outlaws rights on red unless otherwise posted and it makes life as a pedestrian so much better.

It's a shame that NYC drivers never seem to follow this. I see even commercial vehicles like trucks regularly turn on red.

Although, I suppose the situation would be even worse if it wasn't outlawed...

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#37

Post by upofadown » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #28

Why the article doesn't mention of distracted and inattentive pedestrians? It might be possible that the sudden increase in deaths is due to the rise of handheld distractions. Also the same could be true of drivers and cyclist using their handheld.

It doesn't mention distracted and inattentive pedestrians because that is not an important factor. From the article:

>Most pedestrians and bicyclists are killed or injured while they are obeying the law.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#38

Post by mrhappyunhappy » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

I worked at a personal injury law firm in LA and the number of calls we got daily regarding bicycle collisions was disturbing. I knew I would never ride a bike or a motorcycle in LA. It wasn’t a matter of if you got hit but when.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#39

Post by admiral_biatch » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #9

The safest infrastructure are ones that split pedestrian / bicyclist / motor traffic as much as possible, for obvious reasons. But that infrastructure has fallen out of favor as of late. "Complete streets" are the new fashion trend, and are significantly more dangerous, by combining these forms of traffic altogether and just sort of hoping it all works out. But, "complete" streets are super cheap, and give the illusi…

In my opinion isolating separate transportation modes is only good if it is complete isolation but that's never feasible in a city. Too expensive and space-inefficient to make every intersection collision-free for cars, bikes and pedestrians.

If you separate cars, bikes and pedestrians most of the time but their paths cross at intersections then you have a problem because drivers might not expect a sudden bike lane out of nowhere. It's better to have the bike lane on the street so that cars see it all the time. This makes them drive slower and more carefully because they expect bikes to show up there.

I don't have data to back this up although I vaguely remember reading about it in "Streetfight" by Janette Sadik-Khan. If I recall correctly introduction of unseparated bike lanes in New York City didn't increase bike fatalities despite increasing the number of bikers and it also decreased number of pedestrian fatalities thanks to cars driving slower because of bikes. Of course the article shows that now the pedestrian deaths increased so it might have been a premature conclusion on Sadik-Khans part.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#40

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

upofadown wrote: post #37

baud147258 wrote: post #28

Why the article doesn't mention of distracted and inattentive pedestrians? It might be possible that the sudden increase in deaths is due to the rise of handheld distractions. Also the same could be true of drivers and cyclist using their handheld.

It doesn't mention distracted and inattentive pedestrians because that is not an important factor. From the article: >Most pedestrians and bicyclists are killed or injured while they are obeying the law.

It sure is important when death is on the line. It's no consolation telling St Peter "But I was within the law!"

It's risky out there. Everybody, please keep your heads up!